The question is simple. Should Israel exist. I know that this subject is very controversial so I am setting some "ground rules." 1. Because Israel is so tied into Judaism, NO ANTI-SEMETIC COMMENTS 2. Please back up your reasoning with facts 3. Respect other's opinions. I cannot tell you how many times I have been on CNN and seen people flinging mud at each other. BE RESPECTFUL!
I am looking forward to seeing the posts and logic behind the opinions.
I think that it is a little unfair that invaders that lose land to the defenders cry about it, but we all can't be happy hmmm?
having spoken to you about this for a while now i had assumed that you weren't a complete idiot, well whatever lets hope your having an off day and remove the fail from that comment
earlier you stated that it worried you that the IDF uses house demolition as a collective punishment when this is effectively what building Israeli houses on Palestinian land is doing, and as been stated Palestine has never been a country, so it has never invaded Israel, other Arab nations have on their behalf
that comment contradicted pretty much everything you say you stand for
i may be a bit fuzzy on the subject but a religion is a religion and we should not start another war on it
this is becoming madeningly tiresome, i have no idea what you mean by religious war? and if your a bit fuzzy then go and do some research and come back later
a prime example that Israel is in no way a nation that has freedom in its actions or respect and humanity at the core of its actions is the segregation wall, now thats disgusting
having spoken to you about this for a while now i had assumed that you weren't a complete idiot, well whatever lets hope your having an off day and remove the fail from that comment
Alright, so that comment wasn't completely justified. I had had a very long day, and I was feeling cranky and not in the mood for stupid comments like Armed_Blade was posting, so I sort of lashed out. I apologize. It was not right for me to post that even though that was the exact thought going through my mind at the moment.
that comment contradicted pretty much everything you say you stand for
No it didn't. As I had mentioned above, I was exhausted, so please don't take that comment at face value. Again, I'm sorry for what I said, but my ideals that I have previously stated, minus the comment above about the losing land in warfare, still stand as posted.
Oh, and sorry for double posting, but I'd also like to ask what part of my comment was stupid. I was only pointing out the irony in the situation of the Mosque being torn down.
Lastly, I think it's really pathetic you're lashing out at me twice, seeing as you had so much fun doing so in that thread about fat people.
Seriously -- don't blame me for saying something retarded.
I would like to say that I think it's terrible that Palestinians within these areas actually support Hamas groups -- but I wish there was a way to cross reference the poll with outside Palestinians. Those that can't leave/don't have the means to probably see Israel as their enemy [based on those polls].
they are making the same mistake as America in Vietnam, by using tactics that collectively punish the people they are basically recruiting for Hamas, many people feel they have no option but to join Hamas
Alright, so that comment wasn't completely justified. I had had a very long day, and I was feeling cranky and not in the mood for stupid comments like Armed_Blade was posting, so I sort of lashed out. I apologize. It was not right for me to post that even though that was the exact thought going through my mind at the moment.
good, now would you like to actually address the argument rationally
Lastly, I think it's really pathetic you're lashing out at me twice, seeing as you had so much fun doing so in that thread about fat people.
dont turn this into a slagging match please it will inevutably lead to a lock and me getting pissed off with you two
Couldn't help but notice this thread. Excuse me if I'm gonna seem as if I was born yesterday but there's no way I'm going through all the posts so far. I hope this will not degrade to a flame war, its always a danger in this kind of threads, or so I heard. One last thing, please excuse my English mistakes, don't let my spellchecker fool you! So I'll address the last post:
they are making the same mistake as America in Vietnam, by using tactics that collectively punish the people they are basically recruiting for Hamas, many people feel they have no option but to join Hamas
I personally know a lot of soldiers and will be one soon. The tactics used by the IDF try to make as little collective damage as possible. However those kind of things are inevitable in war and can never be completely prevented, especially when the enemy, in this case Hamas, is using human shield tactics. I agree that a lot of people join Hamas just because of those those collective punishments but I find it unfair to blame anyone other then Hamas for most of them because of Hamas's human shield tactics and the constant anti western and anti Semitic propaganda. However I do disagree on the 'they have no option' part, there's always an option and I'm sure a lot of Gazans aren't happy using human shields or firing anti tank rockets at Israeli school busses.
Lastly, I think it's really pathetic you're lashing out at me twice, seeing as you had so much fun doing so in that thread about fat people.
Alright, Armed_Blade, first of all, I apologized numerous times after that. I mistakenly did not read all of the post, so I just jumped to conclusions.
Dude, sorry for scorching you in the "Goodbye to Ronald McDonald" thread, but it gets me fired up when people post without knowing what they are talking about, you follow?
That was my original post on your wall, warning you in advance about what I had written.
sorry, just read your full post...which I obviously didn't read before posting. SORRY!
I then apologized on you wall, and..
OHHHHHHHHHHHH, never mind. Thanks Moe, didn't see that. Guess I should never jump to conclusions. SORRY ARMED_BLADE!!!!
I also posted that on the forum.
And then this is the post that you left on my wall
Haha, it's cool man. No hard feelings.
Back on topic.
The tactics used by the IDF try to make as little collective damage as possible. However those kind of things are inevitable in war and can never be completely prevented, especially when the enemy, in this case Hamas, is using human shield tactics.
Goblin, this is exactly what I am trying to get across! I mean, if a Hamas agent launches a rocket in the middle of nowhere, if he gets killed only Hamas cries out and calls for revenge. However, if Israel tries to launch a precision strike, and the agent is in the middle of a market, than the int. community will use the UN Security Council to lash back at Israel, which has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than any other nation combined.
That's actually another good point. The Western world has this obsession with Israel. I'd bet 5$ the average Western person heard a lot about Israel but will not be able to name 4 different conflicts going on today. Funny considering the size of the Israeli-Arab conflict...
btw, Be careful using wiki. Lately when I read some stuff in wiki I noticed a lot of half truth's and other manipulation of the truths. Especially when it comes to politics (and school material, go figure).
For those here who condamend Israel for collective damage tactics, please answer this: You are an Israeli soldier going in with you're team into the front lines during Cast-Lead. A sniper bullet just missed you're head by an inch and you noticed where it came from a UN hospital window. Do you try to shoot him/ charge the hospital and probably get at least few of you're friends killed (or just fall into an ambush and get everyone killed) as well as slowing down the advancement (that makes the war last longer and get more people killed) or do you send in an air strike? If you answer A then you're probably a lair or can't imagine the situation. Also, this about the tactics so please don't answer this with something like "the war was wrong in the first place".
Alright, Armed_Blade, first of all, I apologized numerous times after that. I mistakenly did not read all of the post, so I just jumped to conclusions.
I understand that, I just think it's funny you're doing it again. The reason I'm saying it is because you still haven't voiced your opinion on what you think about 300,000 people living on the West Bank.
A sniper bullet just missed you're head by an inch and you noticed where it came from a UN hospital window.
The Airstrike looks pretty decent for now on but this part is a little confusing. Are UN Hospital Windows normally filled with Palestinian terrorists?
Also, their army hasn't always gone airstrike happy. The Gaza invasion in 2008 was rather nasty. I'd rather have Israel regulate arms imports than to cause a humanitarian crisis, and this one, I'm sure, as a whole, did not look much like the UN Hospital scenario you're giving here, seeing as Israel was internationally asked to start a ceasefire.
Also, I'm not sure about Jews in Israel, but from what I've heard about Jewish communities, they're rather seclusive. So It's not like Palestinians can easily merge into their society, and, if all of the Palestinians are poor, they probably feel suppressed or exploited, and even further alienated due to bad history and maybe even strong religious upbringing. All of this put together sounds as if the only real option they have is to support Hamas over Israel, since they can't see Israel as friends. I know that's not 100% true but for the majority of Palestinians I'm going to assume it is, based on the polls and facts given.
I completely agree with that, but if Egypt doesn't start to cooperate, than there might be another invasion into the GS.
I tried to do some research, sorry for not being able to make the connection. Besides the fact that they opened their doors, what else does Egypt need to cooperate in?
I know Hamas is the de-facto government, but the Strip is connected to only three locations: Israel, Egypt, and the Mediterranean Sea. So, Israel obviously isn't smuggling things through, and I believe the GS has no territorial water control.
So i'm guessing what you mean is that Egypt needs to stop exporting weapons to Hamas? If that is the case, then I think it would be better to have some sort of diplomatic arbitration agreements with Egypt, not an invasion of the Gaza Strip.
