The Following Are Opinions Expressed By Esordereno-http://armorgames.com/user/Esordereno
Question being asked:Is "camping" aka "spawn killing" an acceptable thing, or an intolerable act? (good or bad?/right or wrong?)
Camping.
Aka Spawn killing.
Here on "http://armorgames.com/play/4264/colony" It is known as base pinning.
Essentially it is killing your enemy as soon as they spawn giving no chance for backlash.
Throughout the history of gaming, Camping Has been a large part of multiplayer game play. In some games, knowing the location of spawn points can get you a lot of win/kills/points by way of spawn killing.
But, due to the fact that spawn killing takes no skill and minimal effort and essentially nullifies the competitive aspect of gaming, it has long been outlawed amongst respectable gamers.
It has become an act associated with "newbs" (or newbies) and inexperienced ones since, usually, spawn killing is the only way they can attain any sort of victory.
It is a desperate maneuver often applied by ones knowing they are out ranked/out lvled and have little chance of success if they are play "head to head." Consider it to be the "low blow" of gaming.. As low as one can go without it being considered cheating.
The reason i speak of this topic is this:
At "http://armorgames.com/play/4264/colony" there is a great division when playing multiplayer between those with "skill" and those with.. well.. none.. o.o .. and amongst those with "skill", there is a greatly disturbing habit that has infected the community. The habit of (can ya guess?) Camping.
Though, they call it "inning" it is essentially spawn killing. Placing units in just the right position so that anytime the enemy makes any units, they instantly die.
It is disturbing because: They find absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Upon realizing how prevalent and accepted this act was, i was dumbfounded, really. I fancy myself to be an experienced gamer and video game addict since the age of 5 when i first played "duck hunt", and never have i beheld such a grand disgrace to the art of gaming than this: the acceptance, tolerance, and praising of Camping.
My opinion of camping: It is pointless and ruins gameplay. This is a game where camping is acceptable: Whoever gets the first kill/win is the winner automatically because now that they have one kill, anytime the other person tries to spawn, they will be instantly defeated. Those who support camping or "base pinning" actually have said to me "well thats why you have to fight for the pin", essentially saying, when you send out your first few units, which ever sides units win this initial battle deserves to be the winner.
If every game were to be played this way, nearly 90% of the games, units, strategies, and buildings in Colony would be obsolete because they take too long or cost too much or simply are not fast enough making them no good for pinning. Somehow, i do not think this is what the games creator had in mind when he created this intricate, well balanced game.
Well..
After much discussion and disagreement between myself and those who would defend this action, I am curious to know what you, the people, have to say about this.
So, if you would please, tell me what you think of camping/spawn killing/pinning. Is it acceptable and Is it "strategy" worthy of respectable gamers, or is it simply a "noob" act and beneath us?
ok first of all, camping and spawn killing are two different things. spawn killing is for the noobish, camping is a good strategy.
Well.. i see your point in that sometimes people refer to waiting in one place for your opponent as camping, but as i wrote, the camping i am referring to happens directly in front of opponent spawn point..
-.- why would u even say what you said? It shows you didnt even bother to read..
Pinning is the best way to maximize the effectiveness of your units
Who on earth with a brain would argue that? No one.
If you spawn kill you will usually win. That is the way it works, but that does not make it acceptable behavior (for a skilled/experienced player especially) by any means.
In RST games it means that you have a better build that allow you to get more troops or better quality troops
In FPS games camping is not acceptable since the player cant react and shoot the camper. In RST games you can react by building the counters to the units
Really dude? Is that the best defense you can set up??? Bet you wish you could camp me in this forum. But I can and, if need, shall record a video of a person with a basic base pin and ppl will undoubtedly see that it is exactly the same as spawn killing in an FPS game.
Almost kind of worse really.. because, at least, in FPS games your teammates do not spawn in the exact same place you do like on colony.. so maybe they can stop the person spawning you.
But once a pin is in place on colony, the entire team is shut down.
Keep in mind we are not talking about noob pins that you can "break", or pins that are kept in place so long that you actually get enough resources to spawn a ton of units and break through it. We are talking about the kind of pin u use against me sometimes, trying, where u get just enough units in front of my base so that i cant make units and then you waste no time and take no chances.. You do not even attack with your "inning units", you bring new units in to attack my base while your still pinning me. xD ..effectively ruining any plan i may have for defending my base by attacking your units while they attack.
Dare you to even offer a defense for what is so blatantly just.. cruel really to your opponent? and personally i find it disrespectful for the fact that i would never do that to you.
Stuff like this is what drives losers to desperate levels like hacking--when they cant win against glitchers and they dont even get the opportunity to build a single unit against self proclaimed "fair players." =[
In FPS games the teams are balanced so if the other team camps every single player on the other team it's game over For colony if you're taking about playing modes other than normal it's because the game is pretty imbalanced in those modes In dogfight if you pin with scouts the game is over since the cheap AA stuff are all ground units In earthquake the tank pins would be easily countered by scouts and choppers. That's also why people dislike far snipers in eq. In all the other modes a tank and sakata mk2 pin would easily be stopped with like 3 missiles This is why glitchers are so hated since they can get the counters that are blocked by the game. In normal games in order to set up a proper pin you need not only hover tanks and sakata mk2 but you also need medics so you dont get killed by the missiles. This takes a long time and you should be prepared by then. This also begs the question Why are you leaving your base undefended so I can pin you?
whats the point of having a better build? if my build is faster than yours and i get hovers first, shouldn't i use that to my advantage? or should i just let them camp outside the pinning range doing nothing while you use ur slower build, which will prolly give you a few more units and then let you come and overwhelm my units. obviously im going to take advantage or my better build and use it to win.
If you set one pin in place with say.. just scouts and romans, basic stuff, eventually i will break it, but i will waste resources in the process setting me behind, meanwhile, you will invest your resources into upgrades to get better units so, essentially, you can stay one step ahead of me, and should ignore your pin, i run the risk of you making influence units and gaining yet another strong advantage. To defend or not to defend: it is a catch 22 in many cases.
And in a game where the PIN is the main focus, what do you see but people with identical builds (whichever is most effective) fighting over that first pin.. and whoever gets it is pretty much the guaranteed game winner considering the resources wasted by the other team trying to defend. FFS i fell like im talking in circles, pointless since i know you know what i am saying.
I agree that pins are most common and easiest to set up in games without missiles, and earthquake an dogfight where there are no effective units to counter a pin...but..
You act as if people do not do quick pins in normal game? all you need is aa and snipers.. have the snipers behind the anti-air so the aa takes missile damage and you get a few medics for them so base doesn't kill them. U make a black queen? Instant kill. Hovers. Tanks? Boom. One shot. Of course you can always get units to counter or so many units u break through--eventually, but only a noob gets countered when they have a pin in place. Knowing you, you would hurry and get hovers to further solidify ur pin, along with meds. until eventually you just rush romans or something for the win.
The pin is about:
1: influence and
2: making your opponent waste resources trying to stop you from gaining influence.
It is like getting your opponent in a tight and easy submission hold.. even if they manage to break free, they put so much effort into breaking free that they are not at their usual level of play, meanwhile you have exhausted relatively little energy and are pumped and ready to go.
lol you didnt answer any of the above questions. and of course people are going to use pins, do you expect people to just sit around and wait for you to build up and get all comfortable? no, the point of the game is to fight for field control and tech up at the same time. krin made the third influence spot in the middle of the field for a reason. why settle for one influence when you could be getting three
in addition to all of the points NoSleep brought up about using a faster build to your advantage, I would also like to point out one thing. Above you said that in a game where pinning is the main focus, you see people with identical builds fighting for the pin, and the winner is guaranteed the win. Well, I think that, if the two teams fight for a pin, then the team that gets it, deserves to win anyway since they obviously had better micro and macro which shows that they had more skill, no? As i said in my intro, however, this is just one reason among the many that NoSleep has pointed out in why i disagree with you.
Well, I think that, if the two teams fight for a pin, then the team that gets it, deserves to win anyway since they obviously had better micro and macro which shows that they had more skill, no?
I thank you g2tSome for taking the time to read what i wrote and for being honest in this, because ultimately, this is all that matters. This one single difference between us.. It is just as said:
Those who support camping or "base pinning" actually have said to me "well thats why you have to fight for the pin", essentially saying, when you send out your first few units, which ever sides units win this initial battle deserves to be the winner (overall)**.
And I understand that this is simply a difference in the way we are and the way we do things, and i cannot change that. What would would like you to address and respond to though, is this:
If every game were to be played this way, nearly 90% of **(colonys)** units, strategies, and buildings would be obsolete because they take too long or cost too much or simply are not fast enough making them no good for pinning. Somehow, i do not think this is what the games creator had in mind when he created this intricate, well balanced game.
For many of you here responding have expressed to me that you believe Krin would indeed support the act of pinning and recognize it as fair gameplay. Do you really think that still considering the fact that such thinking truly nullifies a ton of strategies, several buildings and expensive/long upgrades, and as a result, many units as well--making them virtually useless and making the act of attempting to obtain them a deathwish?
It also comes back to he matter of the fact that some people "lay to win" and others play to be amused. You guys play to win, correct? As you would say, "who wants to lose?" and "why give your opponent the chance to defeat you if you can avoid it?" But i challenge that idea and that notion that losing is bad.
I do not seek to win every game, what i seek is to have a "Good Game" every game. A "GG." Where after it is over i can say: Wow, that was amazing, fun, and i leave semi-excited with my imagination stimulated. IF i wanted to win every game, i could use the same tactics you guys use.
I am sure many of you have experienced what i have when, if you join a random game, it is not even a slight challenge--like taking candy from a baby. But you know what.. It doesn't feel good for me. I do not enjoy taking candy from babies and i don't enjoy dominating games. The ideal match-up for me is one that never ends, like an intricate dance of building and attacking in waves and countering and counter-countering.. That type of play is what makes this game special and memorable--is the dance.. the art.. the craft of Colony.. you get that, dont you?
Pinning is a part of the game you can use to your advantage. I give in to that much, but at what point (on Colony) does it go too far, if ever?
Well, I support the GG theory as well, and think that pinning should be one style of play rather than the best wtyle of playing MP. So, what I believe is that, if pinning is so unbalanced as you say Esordereno, then Krin ought to balance the game somehow. That way any style would not bully the others. It's the same as if rushing would own any other strategy. What's the point of that? But if you insist that it is unethical to try to be the best tactician in the best tactic in a game, then my advise would be to find a new game, because this game's community seems to be fairly established. I'm just answering from reading the commets above.
