The Following Are Opinions Expressed By Esordereno-http://armorgames.com/user/Esordereno
Question being asked:Is "camping" aka "spawn killing" an acceptable thing, or an intolerable act? (good or bad?/right or wrong?)
Camping.
Aka Spawn killing.
Here on "http://armorgames.com/play/4264/colony" It is known as base pinning.
Essentially it is killing your enemy as soon as they spawn giving no chance for backlash.
Throughout the history of gaming, Camping Has been a large part of multiplayer game play. In some games, knowing the location of spawn points can get you a lot of win/kills/points by way of spawn killing.
But, due to the fact that spawn killing takes no skill and minimal effort and essentially nullifies the competitive aspect of gaming, it has long been outlawed amongst respectable gamers.
It has become an act associated with "newbs" (or newbies) and inexperienced ones since, usually, spawn killing is the only way they can attain any sort of victory.
It is a desperate maneuver often applied by ones knowing they are out ranked/out lvled and have little chance of success if they are play "head to head." Consider it to be the "low blow" of gaming.. As low as one can go without it being considered cheating.
The reason i speak of this topic is this:
At "http://armorgames.com/play/4264/colony" there is a great division when playing multiplayer between those with "skill" and those with.. well.. none.. o.o .. and amongst those with "skill", there is a greatly disturbing habit that has infected the community. The habit of (can ya guess?) Camping.
Though, they call it "inning" it is essentially spawn killing. Placing units in just the right position so that anytime the enemy makes any units, they instantly die.
It is disturbing because: They find absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Upon realizing how prevalent and accepted this act was, i was dumbfounded, really. I fancy myself to be an experienced gamer and video game addict since the age of 5 when i first played "duck hunt", and never have i beheld such a grand disgrace to the art of gaming than this: the acceptance, tolerance, and praising of Camping.
My opinion of camping: It is pointless and ruins gameplay. This is a game where camping is acceptable: Whoever gets the first kill/win is the winner automatically because now that they have one kill, anytime the other person tries to spawn, they will be instantly defeated. Those who support camping or "base pinning" actually have said to me "well thats why you have to fight for the pin", essentially saying, when you send out your first few units, which ever sides units win this initial battle deserves to be the winner.
If every game were to be played this way, nearly 90% of the games, units, strategies, and buildings in Colony would be obsolete because they take too long or cost too much or simply are not fast enough making them no good for pinning. Somehow, i do not think this is what the games creator had in mind when he created this intricate, well balanced game.
Well..
After much discussion and disagreement between myself and those who would defend this action, I am curious to know what you, the people, have to say about this.
So, if you would please, tell me what you think of camping/spawn killing/pinning. Is it acceptable and Is it "strategy" worthy of respectable gamers, or is it simply a "noob" act and beneath us?
~.^ Not if my attacking units are never placed on hold..
Only time i can imagine one being justified in holding all their units near enemy spawn point--too far away to attack base--without it being considered pinning, is during a full retreat of their units and they may wish to gain the advantage of greater range.
Alright, from reading this thread OP I don't think you understand the RTS gametype. The whole goal is to prevent your enemy from being able to effectively fight back and then kill them. Now, I would agree with you if it took no skill to create an effective pin, but that just isn't the case . You are given plenty of chances to stop your opponents' effort to pin. I mean, do you expect me to just throw my units away at you or make them fall back and let you rebuild? Saying yes would be pretty naive.
On a side note. You should ask a mod to rename this thread to spawn killing because camping isn't spawn killing. I mean, you camp just as much when you're turtling.
Not if my attacking units are never placed on hold.
Best way to attack base is using the charge and hold function. If careful, hovers can hit base without being hit themselves and this is the same for a lot of units.:P
(i either attack base or keep my snipers back just enough so that they have a little room to build).
The way I see it is Far Snipers only bonus is the fact that you can use them to hit the enemy at their base, they are slow in attack and die very easily. If I was to ever use them (I hate them so rarely ever do) then I would definitely use their range to the best advantage possible.
you camp just as much when you're turtling.
Turtling is where you entrench yourself in your main base or something without trying to expand, right?
I do not understand why people must nitpick and make know it all comments when it is obvious the points i am making here.. Therefore, I am now putting you people on *mute*.
Alright, from reading this thread OP I don't think you understand the RTS gametype. The whole goal is to prevent your enemy from being able to effectively fight back and then kill them.
Lol.. how is that different from any other game? FYI, i think understand the gametype.. well enough. As i said before, the goals in gaming are different for different peoples.. Some play to win, others play for the sake of play.
Best way to attack base is using the charge and hold function. If careful, hovers can hit base without being hit themselves and this is the same for a lot of units.:P
well, you dont really have to charge for that. xD but yea, same with prides.. i always laugh at people who send like 3 prides to my base and they all die from base attacking. LOL.
And for the far snipers, as i said, i use them effectively (of course, in conjunction with other units) without having to pin so.. no matter what anyone says about them will not lessen the way i view them or their use.
Well, true but if you set on forward instead of charge and the opponent was to make a unit, your units will cease to be lined up as well as they were (Presuming you lined them up before attacking) which really annoys me. I tend to be a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to that sort of thing.:L
i always laugh at people who send like 3 prides to my base and they all die from base attacking.
Lol. Yeah, it does make me laugh when things like that happen I find it funny when someone thinks they are going to win because they have like 5 ops teams on the field and they start getting all like "haha, you noob, I win!" then I make a BQ and just mess them up. lol:P [/quote]no matter what anyone says about them will not lessen the way i view them or their use.[quote] Well, that is fair enough. We are all entitled to our own opinions and play styles.
Well, that is fair enough. We are all entitled to our own opinions and play styles.
Indeed.. still though, this is what i cannot get over with pinning:
When i think of all the strategies i could use for to pin, i can think of some. When i think of all the strategies i can use in a game without pinning, there are almost limitless possibilities. Almost every time i log on i find a new strategy i can use.
But, again, in a game with pinning involved as an essential part of attaining victory, the possibilities, by comparison, are so few.. it is.. purely ridiculous.. to think of every intricate beautiful original strategy that must be abandoned in order to support this style of play--is it worth it?
Today i engaged in a series of games against an apparently irate person who was pming me from a guest acc, telling me how i was a loser for complaining about pinning. "The guest" agreed to demonstrate for me a couple of ways (they instantly claimed to know 2) in which i could not only counter, but, if possible, prevent a chronite tank pin in an eq game. After several games, the results were this:
He (presuming it was a guy) could stop my attack only once by using a combination of four "fast snipers" and chronite tanks of his own. Every other attempt he gave, utilizing either forge, mod sakatas, spec ops, or a combination, Failed without it even being much of a competition.
I hope this one example helps to show my point (here and also to "the guest" that, when pinning is brought into play, the number of directions in which any game might go are greatly limited.
Well... 1- earthquake is a pretty limited mode. In normal a pin as powerful as a chronite pin in eq would be much harder to do, and it requires at least a tier 2 building. Plus there are missiles, that can destroy everything that isn't tier 3, except for the AA sakata and war sanctuum units. 2- if you get pinned, you deserved it... it means that you already lost the main battle, or that you didn't do anything for all the game. Once you conquered all the battlefield it's quite stupid to sacrifice your survived units against the base and lose all the field you are controlling, just because you know that the enemy won't have chances to win anymore.
The decent defenses i hear offered for pinning here are:
1. it is the best way to win
2. if you get pinned you must suck
3. it isn't that effective anyways
4. it is needed for influence gain
5. it is common so it can't be bad
In response i say:
1. I do not deny that.
2. Take a lesson from the guest i mentioned in my previous post. If you want to prove to me that, in order to stop a pin, you do not have extremely limited choices in what builds and units u can use, we can test it in game.
3. Maybe you havent seen or done a "good" pin, but with a good pin, nothing is going to do much damage to you outside of a lot of missiles, but against a missiles build, who is really going to sit there with a ton of units and not attack you when u cant really make many units? That is unrealistic.
4. Perhaps i would be inclined to see the point in what you guys say if i didn't play the game as much as i do. I do not pin and i have no trouble winning many games (of all types) with tier one units (against players of all skill levels and experience levels), gaining influence, and not just letting my enemy build some huge ginormous army or upgrade to tier 3 and pwn me. Perhaps if i did have these issues, i would be inclined to understand where you guys are coming from, but...idk.. i guess maybe i am just better than those of you who actually have these issues? If you are able to admit that much, i suppose we could end this disagreement now.. but you wouldn't do that, now would you? ~.^
5. =\\ Just so you understand where i am coming from, i despise.. everything. I receive little joy from much of anything, ever.. i do not like talking to you people.. i do not like hearing myself.. i do not take pleasure the idea of me being correct over another. I do not speak for my sake or give advice to benefit me in any other way than that i would be quite irritated if i did not say anything when i see foolishness at work. Unfortunately for you all, i see quite a bit of foolishness at work here, and have quite a bit of time on my hands so.. =\\ *sigh*
Stop taking the easy route you fools.. it will only take you in circles, don't you know? Hahaha...........
I hope this one example helps to show my point (here and also to "the guest" that, when pinning is brought into play, the number of directions in which any game might go are greatly limited.
I do agree with this in EQ as there are only two builds that can be used really; all out tank rush and the one that AL and I sort of started using a while back which just owns anything; 2 tank then upgrade to barracks for snipers. Those are the only two rush builds that can be used and actually be successful in EQ. I do, however, think that in normal, there are quite a number of different builds that can be used for rushing (albeit less than the amount of builds there are if you do not rush, obviously) which means there are still different choices, buildings, and counters that can be made if both are using rush builds. I am happy play games and I am not bothered about whether or not I use a rush build.
if i did have these issues, i would be inclined to understand where you guys are coming from, but...idk.. i guess maybe i am just better than those of you who actually have these issues? If you are able to admit that much, i suppose we could end this disagreement now.. but you wouldn't do that, now would you?
Lol, I don't mind rushing and I most definitely do not have those issues.:P There isn't many people that can out micro me and my hovers/snipers at the moment.
