ForumsGamesCamping: A question posed to gamers.

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Esordereno
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Esordereno
105 posts
Nomad

The Following Are Opinions Expressed By Esordereno-http://armorgames.com/user/Esordereno

Question being asked: Is "camping" aka "spawn killing" an acceptable thing, or an intolerable act? (good or bad?/right or wrong?)

Camping.

Aka Spawn killing.

Here on "http://armorgames.com/play/4264/colony" It is known as base pinning.

Essentially it is killing your enemy as soon as they spawn giving no chance for backlash.

Throughout the history of gaming, Camping Has been a large part of multiplayer game play. In some games, knowing the location of spawn points can get you a lot of win/kills/points by way of spawn killing.

But, due to the fact that spawn killing takes no skill and minimal effort and essentially nullifies the competitive aspect of gaming, it has long been outlawed amongst respectable gamers.

It has become an act associated with "newbs" (or newbies) and inexperienced ones since, usually, spawn killing is the only way they can attain any sort of victory.

It is a desperate maneuver often applied by ones knowing they are out ranked/out lvled and have little chance of success if they are play "head to head." Consider it to be the "low blow" of gaming.. As low as one can go without it being considered cheating.

The reason i speak of this topic is this:

At "http://armorgames.com/play/4264/colony" there is a great division when playing multiplayer between those with "skill" and those with.. well.. none.. o.o .. and amongst those with "skill", there is a greatly disturbing habit that has infected the community. The habit of (can ya guess?) Camping.

Though, they call it &quotinning" it is essentially spawn killing. Placing units in just the right position so that anytime the enemy makes any units, they instantly die.

It is disturbing because: They find absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Upon realizing how prevalent and accepted this act was, i was dumbfounded, really. I fancy myself to be an experienced gamer and video game addict since the age of 5 when i first played "duck hunt", and never have i beheld such a grand disgrace to the art of gaming than this: the acceptance, tolerance, and praising of Camping.

My opinion of camping: It is pointless and ruins gameplay. This is a game where camping is acceptable: Whoever gets the first kill/win is the winner automatically because now that they have one kill, anytime the other person tries to spawn, they will be instantly defeated. Those who support camping or "base pinning" actually have said to me "well thats why you have to fight for the pin", essentially saying, when you send out your first few units, which ever sides units win this initial battle deserves to be the winner.

If every game were to be played this way, nearly 90% of the games, units, strategies, and buildings in Colony would be obsolete because they take too long or cost too much or simply are not fast enough making them no good for pinning. Somehow, i do not think this is what the games creator had in mind when he created this intricate, well balanced game.

Well..

After much discussion and disagreement between myself and those who would defend this action, I am curious to know what you, the people, have to say about this.

So, if you would please, tell me what you think of camping/spawn killing/pinning. Is it acceptable and Is it "strategy" worthy of respectable gamers, or is it simply a "noob" act and beneath us?

Thank you for your time.

  • 80 Replies
g3tSome
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g3tSome
74 posts
Nomad

Fighting for the pin takes skill though. When both sides fight for the pin, the one with more skills wins, i would think.
Yes, we all like to have long games I'm sure with a lot of dancing back and forth, and that does still happen in my type of game. At a pro level, people that fight for the pin are a lot of times at a draw or if they win the battle, they only have like 1 unit remaining, which can be easily broken. At times like these, you will see the back and forth building up of units and competing for the pin.
You also said that builds that take longer are obsolete because of the pin. Well...if I didn't pin with my faster build, then my faster build would be obsolete to your slower build no?

Hearthunter
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Hearthunter
56 posts
Nomad

It's kind of like playing Age of Empires multiplayer and say it's wrong to distract the opponent's citizens with your scout xD If it works and taked skill, welcome aboard. If your skill does not allow you to beat that, but someone else can, then you just need to practise more.

trying
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trying
468 posts
Bard

Also if you just sit back and build up I could destroy your entire army with less than 9 missiles which would make the build period totally worthless.

Esordereno
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Esordereno
105 posts
Nomad

I agree with what you say to some degree, g3tSome, but at the same time, i try to set what i think is a good example by rushing every time i attack, which, in my opinion, takes much more skill than obtaining a fast pin--doing a fast and effective rush, placing myself potentially in harms way, yes, but that is what makes the game, no?

It is of course true that fast builds will be weak after a period of time, but i achieve good results with rushing most of the time and do not feel the need to resort to pinning and i do not understand why you guys, who are also experienced, knowing lots of good strategies (that alone putting you way ahead of the majority of players), feel the need to pin.

The only reason i can even fathom is that you have a fear of losing. So.. I reiterate this point:

Stuff like this is what drives losers to desperate levels like hacking--when they cant win against glitchers and they dont even get the opportunity to build a single unit against self proclaimed "fair players."


*sigh*
=O storytime?

I have been a gaming newb many times over and have really come to appreciate the few people i have met who cared enough to invest time into teaching me.. things. These guys were true-life &quotros".. and, in my eyes, the epitome of "Living Legends".. And they knew it.. And everyone else knew it. These were the guys who, for a long time, even the villains and REAL hackers and b/a "internet thugs" showed respect to, simply for the fact that.. they were the best. Once, i literally played 50 games/match-ups in a row with my "arena sensei", and he beat me every time, but, still, he never played his hardest. (i could tell).. He always tried to give me a chance, in a sense, without "giving me the win".. He took the time to try and teach me instead of simply dominating me like the newb i was.. and as a result, i eventually became, if i do say so myself, one of the most skilled arena fighters around; outfighting oldbies who had literally played the game for a decade. (and i was also one of the only ones who played without mods/hacks--this game i played had a cheating problem far more advanced and irritating than colonys).

Here.. I guess I aim to imitate my friend and to not "give in" to cheap strategies like pinning. There was Spawn killing in this game i speak of, and i know for a fact, spawn killers led many severals of people to take up cheating, just because it was so cheap and disrespectful.. and what pissed me off more than anything was to see a skilled player or a self-proclaimed &quotro" begin spawning or camping, using mods or doing other newby, socially forbidden things.. because you know what happened? All the ppl who looked up to and, on some level, worshiped these guys, began to imitate them, and eventually, spawning went from being one of the lowest lows to being nearly acceptable, and camping became commonly used as one of the best strategies.. and the game was never the same.. it lost its luster.. it beauty.. its unimaginable, intricate glamor that was like nothing i have ever experienced playing any other game, video or otherwise.. because it stopped being about skill and about people.. or kool outfits.. and it stopped being about flashy moves or fancy techniques or even who was truly better.. and started being about winning...... and there was no venerable one to come forward and say "don't do that".. The Admins? Gone. My "sensei" had long since vanished along with most other oldbies--unwilling to watch what they enjoyed turn into a cesspool.. and the game slowly died to me.. a tragic, brutal death.. Hmph.

i tell you with insight that the spirit.. the attitude of "victory by any means necessary".. it kills fun and invites all sorts of disgusting things into ones heart. It devours the hopes of the inexperienced and.. do trust.. it keeps far from the minds of the wise gamers.

..and thats the way i feel..

R.I.P.-Endless Online Arena.
Esordereno
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Esordereno
105 posts
Nomad

..guys.. stop trying to downplay the effectiveness of pinning.. you are making yourselves look silly. A well-done pin, that grows over time.. with medics and "the works" will not be broken.. period.

And you all know this.. you purposely create games like Cold War - Safe skies - Dogfight - Earthquake, which do not have the option of using missiles, because you know your pins will be easier that way..

Even for a pin in a normal game that gets broken with missiles.. it consumes such a large amount of time and resources to break, it puts you (the one with missiles) at a huge disadvantage all the remaining game. Unless the &quotinner" is just completely slacking and not even trying (xD forgive the pun), they should win.

Peggster
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Peggster
483 posts
Nomad

Pinning in my opinion is 100% acceptable. If the opponent is not skilled enough to break a pin or is using a build that is too slow, it is their fault. On many occasions have I had people complaining about me pinning with hovers just because my build is fast and they took an eternity to make anything.

But, I do agree with Esordereno that purposely making a game in which it will be impossible for a pin to be broken due to handicaps is pretty suckish, (even though if someone was to make an SS game or something, I would go straight for a sniper rush/semi pin just to be on the safe side.) Also, I might add; generally speaking, if someone was going for a fast pin, the would not make both an armory and bank at start and this would put them at a bit of a disposition resource wise later in game especially if they are constantly trying to build on pin. There is always hope against pinners and I think that it is an acceptable way to play and is a major part of the game. (My opinion of course, I know a lot of people completely disagree with me.)

trying
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trying
468 posts
Bard

A hover tank pin isnt invincible I have gotten out of a hover pin in earthquake

Esordereno
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Esordereno
105 posts
Nomad

@trying

Well, you know as well as i do, there are two types of pins:

Noob pin= All of ur units perfectly lined up so that anytime something is created they all fire at once and goes BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!

Good pin= Several Rows of different kinds of units so that any time something is created, not all units fire on it, but just enough for a one-hit kill. Of course, it is done that way because if all pinning units fire at once-especially tanks, then if lots of fast units are being created (for example romans and sakatas) it will be a lil while before the tanks shoot again and they will take some damage. This type of pin would indeed be invincible.

Now, I will say, have had games before where i was pinned by someone for soooooo long i actually had time to get 4 fully upgraded forges and over 1000 energy and i just spammed sakakats and his army slowly died.. but people are smarter now and they don't too often play that way. Genuinely, since i started playing a little over a year ago, people are a bit smarter in general, i think.

Hearthunter
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Hearthunter
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Nomad

Well, you totally avoided reading my comment, which means that the only thing you wanna get out of this is people saying 'you're right'. So I simply don't understand why I should keep reading what I thought was a reasonable debate. Period. Noob.

Esordereno
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Esordereno
105 posts
Nomad

Well, you totally avoided reading my comment, which means that the only thing you wanna get out of this is people saying 'you're right'. So I simply don't understand why I should keep reading what I thought was a reasonable debate. Period. Noob.


@Hearthunter

uh.. presuming you are talking to me here..

xD wtf dude.. what makes you think i didn't read your comment? I read all the comments several times. If i didn't reply to it it is just because i had nothing to say and agree with you for the most part. Sorry if i offended you by not acknowledging that you posted. Though, i did reply in a sense by trying to make certain from my comments after that point that, indeed, camping does make the game unbalanced.

One solution i offered to this was that krin make the game to where after coming into range of enemy spawn point, you can only be in "attack" mode or "fall back" mode and not "hold" mode which allows you to just sit there.. but that idea didnt seem popular with many ppls which was part of what led to me starting this topic here..

~.^ You seem to be the one looking for a fight if you ask me..

If you want me to disagree with you--if that was what you were aiming for to gain from your original comments--i actually agree with what you said and, if you would have read MY comments you would see, am not going to argue any longer over ethics because i recognize that "good and bad" are perspectives and i cannot change how people think, but i raised the new point of "is this the sort of game play krin intended to have take place?/would approve of?"

You seem to be in a bad mood. =\\

Know what would be funny is if when you posted that last comment your "smiley face" sun in your picture turned into a frowny faced one.. xD!
Esordereno
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Esordereno
105 posts
Nomad

One solution i offered to this was that krin make the game to where after coming into range of enemy spawn point, you can only be in "attack" mode or "fall back" mode and not "hold" mode which allows you to just sit there.. but that idea didnt seem popular with many ppls which was part of what led to me starting this topic here..


Now that i think about that even more, it seems like an even better idea because in that case, medics will likely be the unit of choice both sides use for to gain influence (as they so often claim is their reason for pinning) and if one side makes a unit to kill the other teams medic, the other team can make a unit to kill theirs, so if either side wants influence, they will need make a treaty of sorts that says: We wont attack you until you attack us. xD I like it, i do.

This may also make monarchy a more usable government since it would be even more valuable for its unique ability to gain influence without field control.. (same with communist influence gain from beating enemy units) because at the moment, if you just put a ton of units in "3+influ area", you can get more than enough of what you need for medics and what not.. making monarchy somewhat unappealing for most "typical" builds. Since it builds slowly and doesn't make much money..
g3tSome
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g3tSome
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Nomad

"Now, I will say, have had games before where i was pinned by someone for soooooo long i actually had time to get 4 fully upgraded forges and..."
i would just like to point out that i find it hard to believe u got 4 fully upgraded forges when thats impossible :P

Esordereno
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Esordereno
105 posts
Nomad

xD Oops.. LOL

Well u know what i mean..

i had four buildings spamming romans and sakatas that killed their units..

stupid me. >_<

Peggster
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Peggster
483 posts
Nomad

The last two comments made me chuckle. When I read Esor's comment before, I didn't even realize what g3tsome pointed out. Lol.
But yeah, it used to be that people spent so long faffing about after pinning you could just muster up resources then kill everything in a barrage of missiles then counter. Nowadays though it is pin then attack when possible.

Paarfam
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Paarfam
1,558 posts
Nomad

Getting away from Colony for a minute...
I camp all the time in Raze. I just stand on a weapon spawning area and just blast whoever comes back from the dead. There are several good spots to camp out in that game. I know Raze 2 will need to change the way people/items/guns spawn because everyone will just camp out in Multiplayer just to get the easy win.

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