The Following Are Opinions Expressed By Esordereno-http://armorgames.com/user/Esordereno
Question being asked:Is "camping" aka "spawn killing" an acceptable thing, or an intolerable act? (good or bad?/right or wrong?)
Camping.
Aka Spawn killing.
Here on "http://armorgames.com/play/4264/colony" It is known as base pinning.
Essentially it is killing your enemy as soon as they spawn giving no chance for backlash.
Throughout the history of gaming, Camping Has been a large part of multiplayer game play. In some games, knowing the location of spawn points can get you a lot of win/kills/points by way of spawn killing.
But, due to the fact that spawn killing takes no skill and minimal effort and essentially nullifies the competitive aspect of gaming, it has long been outlawed amongst respectable gamers.
It has become an act associated with "newbs" (or newbies) and inexperienced ones since, usually, spawn killing is the only way they can attain any sort of victory.
It is a desperate maneuver often applied by ones knowing they are out ranked/out lvled and have little chance of success if they are play "head to head." Consider it to be the "low blow" of gaming.. As low as one can go without it being considered cheating.
The reason i speak of this topic is this:
At "http://armorgames.com/play/4264/colony" there is a great division when playing multiplayer between those with "skill" and those with.. well.. none.. o.o .. and amongst those with "skill", there is a greatly disturbing habit that has infected the community. The habit of (can ya guess?) Camping.
Though, they call it "inning" it is essentially spawn killing. Placing units in just the right position so that anytime the enemy makes any units, they instantly die.
It is disturbing because: They find absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Upon realizing how prevalent and accepted this act was, i was dumbfounded, really. I fancy myself to be an experienced gamer and video game addict since the age of 5 when i first played "duck hunt", and never have i beheld such a grand disgrace to the art of gaming than this: the acceptance, tolerance, and praising of Camping.
My opinion of camping: It is pointless and ruins gameplay. This is a game where camping is acceptable: Whoever gets the first kill/win is the winner automatically because now that they have one kill, anytime the other person tries to spawn, they will be instantly defeated. Those who support camping or "base pinning" actually have said to me "well thats why you have to fight for the pin", essentially saying, when you send out your first few units, which ever sides units win this initial battle deserves to be the winner.
If every game were to be played this way, nearly 90% of the games, units, strategies, and buildings in Colony would be obsolete because they take too long or cost too much or simply are not fast enough making them no good for pinning. Somehow, i do not think this is what the games creator had in mind when he created this intricate, well balanced game.
Well..
After much discussion and disagreement between myself and those who would defend this action, I am curious to know what you, the people, have to say about this.
So, if you would please, tell me what you think of camping/spawn killing/pinning. Is it acceptable and Is it "strategy" worthy of respectable gamers, or is it simply a "noob" act and beneath us?
I do, however, think that in normal, there are quite a number of different builds that can be used for rushing (albeit less than the amount of builds there are if you do not rush, obviously) which means there are still different choices, buildings, and counters that can be made if both are using rush builds.
If this is indeed the case, where is the proof? Where are the example?
I ask because i keep seeing the same units used in the same popular builds.. u know the ones...idk wtf u guys i call em but i call em "fast hovers"..."fast anti-air".. "scouts and romans pin"... "tanks and marines pin".. Really...the fact of the matter is this: No matter which way you slice the apple, my previous statement will prove true. Even in normal game, there are those builds that are "best" for pinning, and those are the builds that are used time and time again.. i mean, my god, i have to log on and choose between playing noobs who offer no challenge (no offense guys) or "ros" who always use the... same.. typical.. usual.. unoriginal.. safe.. tactics... and i feel like i have to use some sort of "safe" tactic when i fight them or else im gonna come out looking like an idiot, which i find quite boring.. I like using weird, unexpected moves, but when in almost every game, every tactic is like.. fast hovers/bq/anti air.. i have the choice to either do a big rush or THE SAME FREAKING BUILD AND HOPE TO COUNTER YOU SOMEHOW CUZ I KNO UR GONNA TRY N PIN ME... which is FREAKING SSSSSSTOOOOOOPEEEED....I used to have fuwn on this game! What happened to that!?!?! Every day i come up with some new strategies that i think are pretty nice but i never get to test them effectively because newbs suck balls (no offense again) and "ros" spawn kill (like cowards)..
=|
True, you can break a lot of pins in normal game, but the damage they do is inevitably done, be it in the form of wasted resources, forced spec ops build, or submission to low influence gain.
There are some people who offer me a decent match-up with strategies i never expect and interesting builds and unit combinations (im not saying everyone sucks and every game is a disappointment), but those people, for the most part, have different schedules than i do, so...
Bank, forge, romans for influence, spec ops, ops teams & romans.(Mon Build)
Bank, post, 1 marine and 1 tank, barracks, snipers, hospital, treasury, spec ops, war sanctum, sphinx or saint or whatever is best at the time. (Cap build)
Bank, armory, forge, make mod phantom romans and scouts, either go for manufactory if the opponent makes forge or gen then solar if they make post, make AA and mods and rush romans after or make mod sakata and scouts/romans. (Mon build)
Bank, hospital, war sanc, post, post, send tanks with either saint or sphinx. (I hate this build. Mon build)
Bank, forge =, scout to center with romans, (roman for killing marines and what not, scouts for everything else), generator if opponent has made post then upgrade to solar and create a mod sakata when 50 influence, or if forge has been made by opponent, go for armory then upgrade to manufactory for aa and mechanics terminal for spiders. (Fascist build)
These are just a couple of builds off of the top of my head.
The fast hover build is one of the best in game and can be used in conjunction with a fast AA build very well. Obviously people will use these builds seeing as they are effective. Some of the best games I have ever played have been between pros doing these builds on both sides because it all comes down to skill and different tactics such as the forger either going for making tons of aa and using them as a shield or just making roman shields and then it comes down to how well the post user can micro and use their shields to their advantage. (Also, why not use these builds seeing as they are the fastest and most efficient?) These tactics are not necessarily safe seeing as they have got counters and do have down sides. If you feel the need to create new builds that do not either beat say a fast hover and fast aa build and can not break a pin or counter a pin, then it is your problem.:L
I like to play most games with my teammate or myself doing a fascist forge rush or something at start to take center and influence and if the other side decides to do a rush then me or my teammate can hold them off whilst the other techs. This can work quite well. (Teammate has to be good as it can be hard to hold off two people by yourself for long enough for the other person to assist.)
trying you are far wrong. Only 1v1 and Fascists 2v2 is figured out.
Here is a question I want an answer to, If you take down your opponents and they have air units its it ok to tell ur units to charge and kill them?
My answer no because it is not allowed in the standard game when the base is up. Also your opponent already have a few disadvantages that make is harder for them to win: they lose their base resource gain, they lose control on one unit on their side (which changes after that unit dies).
Here is a question I want an answer to, If you take down your opponents and they have air units its it ok to tell ur units to charge and kill them?
That is a very good question, I would say that I don't mind if people do it to me as it seems that most people do do it, but, personally, I do not do it. Because, as you said, the enemy is at a disposition anyway due to their lack of resource gain and units going of whack.
Another question then; do you think it is all right to use a unit like a sphinx's air attack on base just to take advantage of it's distance? (I wont say how this is done so that people who don't know how to do it don't get any ideas.:P) I think it's a bad thing to do personally as it was obviously not intended to be possible to do and I think it is cheating even if it is not even that effective most of the time.
That's another situational glitch, which only happened if a unit with two weapon is closer to the enemy base than their one of their air units. No because it is not intended to happen. Its like back in the old day of Colony where Sakata Mk-IIs could hit the once one Mk hit an air unit all of the current ones on that team could be charged at the base and kill it.
So krin fixed the MK11 glitch but continued to let the other units ,such as ground, continue to charge air units?
Pretty much but, I think it is either due to him not being aware of the issue or maybe it was because it is a lot more difficult to execute air attacks on base with all of the other units so he just didn't deem it necessary. MKII's you just sent them on charge and they would go straight for the base if there are no air units on the opponents side whereas it is a bit different for all other units. (I presume you know how it works and I don't want to tell people a glitch so I wont mention how.:P)
If this is indeed the case, where is the proof? Where are the example?
I am not asking for examples of builds here, but in the games, where are they? As I said, i ask because of what i see occurring, not what is possible.
Some of the best games I have ever played have been between pros doing these builds on both sides because it all comes down to skill and different tactics such as the forger either going for making tons of aa and using them as a shield or just making roman shields and then it comes down to how well the post user can micro and use their shields to their advantage. (Also, why not use these builds seeing as they are the fastest and most efficient?)
Perhaps you find it difficult to appreciate my point since you do not seem to play quite as often as i do, but the issue i have is that people use the same handful of builds ALL THE TIME. ("skilled" players i mean) Which, once again, makes perfect since when your goal is only to win the game, but as i said before, i value a genuinely fun game over a victory.
Of course there are strategies to counter just about every strategy, but why one earth would i want to use the same freaking strategies every game to counter against someone who uses the same freaking strategies? -.- I try not to even use the same strategy twice in a row or against the same person..
I am not asking for examples of builds here, but in the games, where are they? As I said, i ask because of what i see occurring, not what is possible.
I see, I tend to just play a game and not care what build I use, I just have fun with anything (Even if I am repeating a build 100 times, I just don't get bored with it, besides, practice makes perfect. lol)
Perhaps you find it difficult to appreciate my point since you do not seem to play quite as often as i do
Well, I used to play everyday for around 5-8 hours a day for several months pretty much so I used to play a lot, I haven't been on the past week as I am in London at my Gf's as she goes to uni here and I came to visit am only on every once in a while to browse forum and have a bit of discussion here and there. Lol. But back to my point; I guess the reason as to why I don't really get your point is that, (As you have probably gathered as well) we have different play styles and we both obviously find different things to be annoying/boring in games.
sooo is it a possiblity that its not a glitch since krin chose not to fix it and maybe he wanted it to be that way?
[quote]Makes sense to me. Dunno why anyone would presume that to be a glitch. I never thought of it that way.
[/quote]
Nah, I find it hard to believe that he would purposely put in something so weird as the ability to attack an enemy base with ground units air attacks so long as there is an air unit in play. Just doesn't seem to fit to me.
