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stormwolf722
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stormwolf722
227 posts
Nomad

Well a lot of people have been telling me evolution is real. They give me the most craziest surreal 'facts'. Has anyone discovered any fish with legs? Any humans with gills or fins? If you put all the pieces of a watch into you're pocket and shake it around for trillions of years, will it ever become a watch? Is there but one possibility? Or if you completely dismantle a chicken and a fish, and put it into a box, shaking it around for trillions of years. Will it ever become a fish with wings? or a chicken with fins? :l

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ChillzMaster
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ChillzMaster
1,434 posts
Nomad

maybe in 2012 all atheist should go protest against this brainwashing in schools?


Has it ever occurred to anyone that someone may be a man of religion, but also be a huge proponent of Evolution?

-Chillz
Dewi1066
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Dewi1066
539 posts
Nomad

does not answer the question of where the single most powerful species on the planet came from


Whales? Seems an odd question to want answering, but I'm sure there is a trail to be followed somewhere that will tell you if you really want to know.
Dewi1066
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Dewi1066
539 posts
Nomad

Has it ever occurred to anyone that someone may be a man of religion, but also be a huge proponent of Evolution?


That's cheating though isn't it? If a religion teaches that God created all and in particular that he created humans in his own image, to then say you also believe in evolution is sort of saying that you believe God exists, but you think he's lying about what he's capable of?
dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

That's cheating though isn't it?


No. I so, I'm a really big cheater.

I believe in evolution, because it was proven. Creationism was not proven. I believe in the big bang, because it was proven. Again, creationism not proven. Though I have not found something that disproves God, so... I don't really see why I should stop believing. I don't let my beliefs get in the way of how I treat people so...
Dewi1066
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Dewi1066
539 posts
Nomad

That doesn't make sense though. You believe in the theory of evolution and the big bang, presumably because you believe there is truth in the theories. But you don't believe in the theories of creationism, but cherry pick God?

So if God exists, did he have anything to do with the fact we're here? And if he didn't, what is the point of his existence in your opinion?

dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

But you don't believe in the theories of creationism,


But creationism isn't a theory.

but cherry pick God?


Yes I'm pretty sure my denomination thinks of God in all of the good ways from the bible and ignores the bad parts. So? Why is this a big deal? You don't need to follow the bible literally to be a christian. The God that other christians see is not nessicarily the God that I see. There aer many different types of christians and this happens to be the way we see God.

So if God exists, did he have anything to do with the fact we're here? And if he didn't, what is the point of his existence in your opinion?


He might have, but I don't know whether he did. I don't know why he exists but I believe he does. You don't need to know why things exists to know or believe they do.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

But you need to have some credible base to believe in something too don't forget and there is no evidence for God.

dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

But you need to have some credible base to believe in something too don't forget and there is no evidence for God.


I'm really sorry, I've dragged this off topic.

I believe in evolution and claim as fact, because I have proof. I believe in God but don't claim as fact because I don't have any proof. If you want to continue, could it just go to profiles?
Dewi1066
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Dewi1066
539 posts
Nomad

I'm really sorry, I've dragged this off topic


No you haven't, couldn't be more on topic if we tried

I believe in evolution and claim as fact, because I have proof. I believe in God but don't claim as fact because I don't have any proof. If you want to continue, could it just go to profiles?


Okay, but evolution is a theory. A theory with credible evidence to back it up granted, but still a theory.

I still don't understand though. God is viewed in most religions as the creator. It is his purpose for being, that he created the heavens, the earth, the seas and the mountains. Then he put in place all living things. So if you take away God as the creator, and he doesn't interfere with our day to day lives because of free will, then why believe in his existence at all?

All I'm saying is, I don't understand how you can have belief in God yet not believe he is the creator. It is cheating you know
dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

No you haven't, couldn't be more on topic if we tried


It's about evolution. We've already established that I believe in it. Now we're just talking about my religion.

Okay, but evolution is a theory. A theory with credible evidence to back it up granted, but still a theory.


It takes a lot of work for it to be a theory. It has so much evidence that its almost much impossible to deny. Well, unless you have really good evidence against it.

All I'm saying is, I don't understand how you can have belief in God yet not believe he is the creator. It is cheating you know


Yeah, I see what you mean. It doesn't really sound quite right.
Dewi1066
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Dewi1066
539 posts
Nomad

It's about evolution. We've already established that I believe in it. Now we're just talking about my religion.


Granted, but the discussion isn't just about evolution as a theory, it is about beliefs. And one of your beliefs is in direct conflict with the theory of evolution, yet you believe in evolution, so very on topic.

It takes a lot of work for it to be a theory. It has so much evidence that its almost much impossible to deny. Well, unless you have really good evidence against it.


Whether or not, it is still just a theory. I happen to believe the theory, but no amount of evidence or belief changes it from being a theory.

Yeah, I see what you mean. It doesn't really sound quite right.


So how do you personally define God? Is he the creator or is he not the creator? I'm not asking for the sake of argument, genuinely interested in how you view it. Fascinates me.
dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

Granted, but the discussion isn't just about evolution as a theory, it is about beliefs. And one of your beliefs is in direct conflict with the theory of evolution, yet you believe in evolution, so very on topic.


Hm, okay.

Whether or not, it is still just a theory. I happen to believe the theory, but no amount of evidence or belief changes it from being a theory.


What do you mean. Yes it has a chance of being false. An extremely low chance. Which is why its so important.

So how do you personally define God? Is he the creator or is he not the creator? I'm not asking for the sake of argument, genuinely interested in how you view it. Fascinates me.


I see God as someone who overlooks people. I think he could have had involvment in the whole universe thing, though I can't really be sure on this.
Dewi1066
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Dewi1066
539 posts
Nomad

What do you mean. Yes it has a chance of being false. An extremely low chance. Which is why its so important.


I'm just stating fact. Evolution is a theory. It is an extremely important theory, but still it remains a theory.

I see God as someone who overlooks people. I think he could have had involvment in the whole universe thing, though I can't really be sure on this.


Again, not for the sake of argument, but what is the purpose of God looking over people? I'm not meaning to sound facetious, I'm asking out of curiosity about your belief. I find it interesting that some have belief, others don't, but your belief is particularly interesting because you're separating God from the role as creator of all life.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Has it ever occurred to anyone that someone may be a man of religion, but also be a huge proponent of Evolution?


Yes it has, in fact there are religious people who are huge proponents of evolution. In fact I include a part of a lecture of one of them in my Evolution Bomb.
How To Shut Up Pesky Creationists

He flat out says he believes in God but not a dishonest God. Though this would also have to mean the Bible could not possibly be the word of God, as God is either lying by making it look like we evolved or is lying in the Bible if you wish to believe both.

As for backing into the corner of metaphorland I will leave this image as my answer to that.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/atheistjokes/403147_264442463618133_119640064765041_753622_1362111722_n.jpg

Granted, but the discussion isn't just about evolution as a theory, it is about beliefs. And one of your beliefs is in direct conflict with the theory of evolution, yet you believe in evolution, so very on topic.


It's called cognitive dissidence, everyone does it to some degree.

from wiki
"Cognitive Dissonance is a discomfort caused by holding conflicting cognitions (e.g., ideas, beliefs, values, emotional reactions) simultaneously. In a state of dissonance, people may feel surprise, dread, guilt, anger, or embarrassment. The theory of cognitive dissonance in social psychology proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance by altering existing cognitions or adding new ones to create consistency."

This is why it can be so difficult to get through a creationists head. Since the theory and their beliefs are in direct conflict they reduce the dissonance by ignoring the theory. In dair's case he ignores certain aspects of the Bible. In my case I let go of beliefs that were not supported by evidence.

I'm just stating fact. Evolution is a theory. It is an extremely important theory, but still it remains a theory.


It's both fact and theory.
Evolution: Fact and Theory
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

Dictionary.com: Fact

Fact:
1. Something that actually exists; reality; truth

2. Something known to exist or to have happened

3. A truth known by actual experience or observation

4. Something said to be true or supposed to have happened

Evolution fits all of those. Even Creationism fits in the 4th.

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