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Devoidless
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Devoidless
3,675 posts
Jester

What my peers here think?

I would like to try and avoid a buch of rabid Catholics and Christians falling back only on the religious reasons and what have you. However, I do not see how that can be dodged.

My view? I'm for it. If a woman wants to get one, it is her choice. Some people seem to act like if one woman gets an abortion, it means that all the rest have to. If the child in question is not yours, butt out.

Also, on a lighter note, I say that abortions should be allowed when kids are up to 18 years old. That would solve a lot of headaches, eh?

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fizeau2
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fizeau2
25 posts
Nomad

what about the guy's? what if the women want's an abortion, but the guy's wants a child? i get the whole it is not the guy's body, and he can't force the women to carry the child for 9 months but shoulden't the guy at least have a say in the matter.

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

HAS ANYBODY HEARD OF THE PILL !?!?


Incase we haven't pointed it out enough, it still has the same affects as abortion as in the baby will never be born.

People should be free to do what they want with their own body, and the state should not prohibit them from doing so.
Things you can do with you own body:
1.Murder a whole family
2.Blow up an orphanage
3.**** a 8 year old girl
4.**** a 8 year old boy
5.Assainate the president


He means you should be able to control what you do with yourself. Such as donating blood, cuting off your own fingure, or abortion.
Kloudwolf
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Kloudwolf
26 posts
Nomad

it still has the same affects as abortion as in the baby will never be born.

Do you know what they do with late term fetuses? THEY STICK THEIR HAND UP THE WOMAN, AND RIP THE BABY STRAIGHT OUT, AND THROW IN THE GARBAGE

dms269
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dms269
49 posts
Shepherd

Actually I tend to think the opposite. If a mother doesn't believe she is emotionally ready or financially strong enough to have the child, then having an abortion is the responsible course of action.


The responsibly course of action would have been to not have unprotected sex in the first place.
FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

HAS ANYBODY HEARD OF THE PILL !?!?


The responsibly course of action would have been to not have unprotected sex in the first place.


More stellar examples of why the 'otential for life' agument doesn't work. If this logic was extended, then women shouldn't be able to take the pill or wear condoms.

As for your point dms about responsibility:

1) Condoms can break, and it does happen fairly often. A fairly minor point I know, but just pointing out that even if women take all the necessary precautions, they can still get pregnant through sheer bad luck.

2) Going back to my point about rights over your own body:

A woman has the right to have unprotected sex, as she has the right to do what she wants with her body, even if this does lead to unwanted pregnancy. Once she is pregnant, she is still the sole arbiter of what happens to her body. No state body should deny her that right. This isn't an argument about subjective morals, it's an argument about objective state power:

Should the STATE have the right to tell people what they can and cannot do with their bodies? If you think so, I suggest you emigrate to North Korea, Iran, China or Zimbabwe, as you'll find your views more closely match those of the ruling administrations than they would in any democratic state.

There are other options becides killing the baby, Adoption for one.


It's not just the raising the child which puts a strain on the mother, but also the period of gestation. If she is in school, she would likely have to put her education on hold, or stop it completely. If she is working she has to take months of work, or lose her job. None of these scenarios are ideal for any woman, and they shouldn't have to choose between them, since it is their own body they are dealing with.

He means you should be able to control what you do with yourself. Such as donating blood, cuting off your own fingure, or abortion.


Precisely. Your examples were to do with people doing harm to others, not to themselves.

what about the guy's? what if the women want's an abortion, but the guy's wants a child?


The man shouldn't really have a say in the matter. If he intended on having a child, he should make that abundantly clear to his partner beforehand, not insist she has a child once she is pregnant. In the words of Mark from Peep Show, giving someone your sperm is like lending someone less than five pounds. You can't really ask for it back.
thepossum
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thepossum
3,035 posts
Nomad

What do you mean the man shouldn't have a say? Of course he should. It affects him just as much as the mother. Also, when a women gets an abortion, it doesn't only affect her. It is the killing of a different human being, and it affects the father, and both their families.

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

What do you mean the man shouldn't have a say?


I don't tell my girlfriend how to cut her hair, or that she should get a tattoo or a piercing. The same applies with a child. Since it's hery body, it's her decision.

It is the killing of a different human being


No it isn't.

it affects the father, and both their families.


Not to the extent that it should be their decision to make. Forcing a woman to raise a child she has been guilt tripped into having would not be a very good formula for happiness for any of the parties involved.
Somers
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Somers
1,532 posts
Nomad

I don't tell my girlfriend how to cut her hair, or that she should get a tattoo or a piercing. The same applies with a child. Since it's hery body, it's her decision


But its also your child? Man, if i was in that situation, and she went behind my back and did it without knowing, i would be wrecked.

It should be a group decision. You were together when it happened, you gotta be together when it ends
rafterman
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rafterman
600 posts
Nomad

Abortion is nothing but a way for a woman who dosen't want to take responsibilty for her own actions to kill a helpless fetus that can't even defend itself people who get and do abortions are worse than murderers.

I don't even know where to start with this ignorance.

A fetus is what a baby is before he is a baby. And what is a baby? an alien? No. a baby is a human being. And people like you make yourself feel better by saying that a pre-baby(fetus) is not a baby, and because of that the fetus is not human.

You killed your own argument there, and a sperm is what comes before a baby.

So we should never have sex and just jerk off(Men) and stick big beces of plastic in ourselves(Women)?

No, your side is the one opposed to stopping babies from being born.

HAS ANYBODY HEARD OF THE PILL !?!?

Hypocrite, that does pretty much the same thing as abortion, only it gives no chance for a baby to be born.
(in that abortion comes later)

There are other options becides killing the baby, Adoption for one.

Do you want to adopted it? Because the orphanages are filled up as it is.


Things you can do with you own body:
1.Murder a whole family
2.Blow up an orphanage
3.**** a 8 year old girl
4.**** a 8 year old boy
5.Assainate the president

There is a difference between choosing what happens to your own body and using your body to kill someone.


what about the guy's? what if the women want's an abortion, but the guy's wants a child? i get the whole it is not the guy's body, and he can't force the women to carry the child for 9 months but shoulden't the guy at least have a say in the matter.

Chances are the guy would have a say, legally if its his fetus he should have a say.


Do you know what they do with late term fetuses? THEY STICK THEIR HAND UP THE WOMAN, AND RIP THE BABY STRAIGHT OUT, AND THROW IN THE GARBAGE

100% false, a late term fetus can not legally be aborted.

It should be a group decision. You were together when it happened, you gotta be together when it ends

The man should have a say but ultimately it should be up to the woman because a fetus is more then a mere inconvenience.
Reton8
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Reton8
3,174 posts
King

And masterbation keeps you from ever being pregnent. So they both have the same effect. Now that the argument is starting to go in crcles, say somthing else, or atleast have somthing more then " There different" as an argument.


They don't have the same effect.

When a women gets pregnant, naturally, only ONE sperm can fertilize the ovum (egg). ALL the other sperms that were released eventually DIE. Does this mean that whenever a woman gets pregnant millions of potential "babies" have died. NO. The sperm have died.

Abortion is the terminating of a prgnancy (embryo or fetus, in other words a fertilized ovum (egg)).
Abortion is NOT the termination of a sperm or unfertilized ovum (egg).

Here is the definition from merriam webster.com

1 : the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: as a : spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation â" compare miscarriage b : induced expulsion of a human fetus c : expulsion of a fetus by a domestic animal often due to infection at any time before completion of pregnancy â" compare contagious abortion

Notice that the definition mentions embryo and fetus and the termination of a pregnancy. At no point, ever, do they mention the termination of a sperm or an ovum (egg). Killing a sperm is not the termination of a pregnancy. Masturbation is not the termination of a pregnancy.

Regardless of whether you believe a human being exists at the moment of conception (fertilization) or sometime after, an abortion is still the termination of a pregnancy.
The question is whether or not someone believes a pregnancy is a human life and then at what time the life is human.
(I believe the life is human at conception so abortion is the killing of a human. That's what I believe.)
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Ok, since you seem to dub to understand anything thats not bolded, Ill give it a try.


Materterbation PREVENTSpregnancy thus it and abortion HAVE THE SAME END EFFECT OF THE CHILD NEVER BIENG BORN

Reton8
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Reton8
3,174 posts
King

Ok, since you seem to dub to understand anything thats not bolded, Ill give it a try.


Okay look 314d1. I'm trying to give you a fact here. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. The typical debate on abortion is not whether abortion is the termination of a pregnancy, because that is a fact here is the definition again from

http://www.merriam-webster.com
http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/abortion

Main Entry: abor·tion
Pronunciation: \\É-ËboÌr-shÉn\\
Function: noun
1 : the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: a : spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestationâ"compare miscarriage b : induced expulsion of a human fetus c : expulsion of a fetus of a domestic animal often due to infection at any time before completion of pregnancyâ"see contagious abortion, trichomoniasis b, vibrionic abortion

Here is the definition of masturbation from
http://www.meriam-webster.com


Main Entry: mas·tur·ba·tion
Pronunciation: \\Ëmas-tÉr-ËbÄ-shÉn\\
Function: noun
: erotic stimulation especially of one's own genital organs commonly resulting in orgasm and achieved by manual or other bodily contact exclusive of sexual intercourse, by instrumental manipulation, occasionally by sexual fantasies, or by various combinations of these agencies

Here are the definitions of abortion from http://dictionary.reference.com
[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abortion]

aâ...borâ...tion
ââ/ÉËbÉ"rÊÉn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-bawr-shuhn] Show IPA
Use abortion in a Sentence
See web results for abortion
See images of abortion
â"noun
1. Also called voluntary abortion. the removal of an embryo or fetus from the uterus in order to end a pregnancy.
2. any of various surgical methods for terminating a pregnancy, esp. during the first six months.
3. Also called spontaneous abortion. miscarriage (def. 3).
4. an immature and nonviable fetus.
5. abortus (def. 2b).
6. any malformed or monstrous person, thing, etc.
7. Biology. the arrested development of an embryo or an organ at a more or less early stage.
8. the stopping of an illness, infection, etc., at a very early stage.
9. Informal.
a. shambles; mess.
b. anything that fails to develop, progress, or mature, as a design or project.

Here is the definition of masturbation from http://dictionary-reference.com


masâ...turâ...baâ...tion
ââ/ËmæstÉrËbeɪÊÉn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [mas-ter-bey-shuhn] Show IPA
Use masturbation in a Sentence
See web results for masturbation
See images of masturbation
â"noun
1. the stimulation or manipulation of one's own genitals, esp. to orgasm; sexual self-gratification.
2. the stimulation, by manual or other means exclusive of coitus, of another's genitals, esp. to orgasm.

ABORTION IS THE TERMINATION OF A PREGNANCY.

ABORTION DOES NOT EQUAL MASTURBATION.

The typical debate is whether or not that pregnancy is a human life or not.

So, I would hope that everyone in the world would agree on the fact that ABORTION IS THE TERMINATION OF A PREGNANCY and in order to have an abortion you have to be terminating a pregnancy (NOT A SPERM!).

What we do debate is whether or not the pregnancy constitutes a human life.

In other words we are debating if pregnancy = human life or not.

Now hopefully I have given two reliable sources that show, at the least, that the definition of abortion and masturbation are not the same and they are not synonyms of each other.
I also hope that I have proven that it is agreed upon that abortion is explicitly the termination of a pregnancy, NOT A SPERM.

I also bolded the words for you not me so that it would be easier to read the key parts of the definition and so that the "not's" and "no" wouldn't get lost in the text.
balerion07
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balerion07
2,837 posts
Peasant

Some pills are abortive others are not. Thats right some pills equal abortion. However those that do not kill or harm a baby if it is there are totally different.

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Okay look 314d1. I'm trying to give you a fact here. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. The typical debate on abortion is not whether abortion is the termination of a pregnancy, because that is a fact here is the definition again from


We all know that masterbation and abortion are not synonyms. But THEY HAVE THE SAME END AFFECT

Its like saying writing and talking are two different things. They both have the same end affect, but one just gets it done sooner.
thepossum
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thepossum
3,035 posts
Nomad

MASTURBATION DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO TERMINATE A PREGNANCY! END EFFECT OF ABORTION= TERMINATED PREGNANCY. END EFFECT OF MASTURBATION= A HAPPY 13 YEAR OLD

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