Forums → WEPR → Abortion
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What my peers here think?
I would like to try and avoid a buch of rabid Catholics and Christians falling back only on the religious reasons and what have you. However, I do not see how that can be dodged.
My view? I'm for it. If a woman wants to get one, it is her choice. Some people seem to act like if one woman gets an abortion, it means that all the rest have to. If the child in question is not yours, butt out.
Also, on a lighter note, I say that abortions should be allowed when kids are up to 18 years old. That would solve a lot of headaches, eh?
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He meant that more than likely you wouldn't get a person pregnant after masturbation
We all know that masterbation and abortion are not synonyms.
Okay cool, I wasn't sure if that's what you were saying or not. Okay but you got that, cool.
I know its hard to see the difference between the end result of masturbation and abortion when thinking, a sperm didn't get to the egg, a baby was stopped from being born. But its not like that.
Abortion: end effect = terminated pregnancy (or embryo or fetus)
Masturbation: end effect = terminated sperm
Sperm Does not equal pregnancy
The end results are different.
Regardless of how someone looks at abortion, the termination of an embryo or fetus is different from the termination of a sperm. Further, when sperm is released during masturbation the prevention of pregnancy hasn't even occurred because that sperm wasn't even head toward an ovum.
Examples are not so easy to use here but its somewhat like this:
You have two magnets, One is charged positively one charged negatively. I can put my hand between the two magnets and stop them from making a connection, but I haven't broken the connection because the connection has not come into existence yet, I've only prevented it. Now if I let the magnets touch the connection is formed. When I separate them I have broken the connection.
The hand is like a condom preventing the connection or pregnancy.
The separation of the magnets is like the abortion which in effect kills the connection (or embryo or fetus).
For this example to work 100% assume the two magnets have to be touching for a connection to occur (and don;t just have to be within each others magnetic fields).
In your example, the end result is still the same, the magnets ended up apart. You just don't like seperating them becase you feel like your killing somthing "cute and fuzzy". But you have to remember, the magnets whould have connected if you hand was not there. So its just ending it before it starts, either way your doing that, but you think " So now its almost alive, now its wrong".
I knew the example would be a good one lol.
I guess I used a bad example, yes the magnets do end up in the same place, disconnected.
See after masturbation a pregnancy is not terminated.
After abortion a pregnancy is terminated.
That is the difference in the end result of masturbation and abortion.
Let me show you a time line of the events.
Course of Masturbation:
Progression of time --->
Start-------------------------------------------Finish
Male Erection-> Masturbation-> Expulsion of sperm-> Sperm Dies.
Course of Abortion:
Progression of time --->
Start---------------------------------------------------------------
Male Erection-> Female Erection-> Intercourse-> Expulsion of Sperm->
Progression of time --->
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Sperm travels to Ovum(egg)-> Ovum fertilized -> Embryo Exists->
Progression of time --->
-----------Finish
Embryo is aborted.
Do you see how different the end results are there?
I tried seeing it in your prospective, but the only reason I could think of for you bieng against it is the fact that one is just a little further to being life....
Progression of time --->
Start---------------------------------------------------------------
Male Erection-> Female Erection-> Intercourse-> Expulsion of Sperm->
Progression of time --->
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Sperm travels to Ovum(egg)-> Ovum fertilized -> Embryo Exists->
Progression of time --->
-----------Finish
Embryo is aborted.
As I have said before, one takes longer. The embryo is aborted, but more can be made. The same as sperm. But that doesen't make abortion wrong if the condem breaks or if there raped or somthing like that.
Since 314 refuses to see reason, let's move on. Is abortion right? I think it's OK in the early stages but not in the later stages. Essentially, I agree with the current laws.
Yeah, we should move on, but I spent a bunch of time typing this so.
I basically say that the pregnancy of a woman is not a consequence or result of masturbation hence the end result of masturbation cannot be that a woman is left not pregnant. Peeling an orange does not get a woman pregnant. I could have had sex and made a baby instead of peeling an orange, but I peeled an orange. Did I have an abortion because I peeled an orange? no.
Well I understand that we disagree on when and/or if abortion is wrong.
(I am 100% against abortion and It seems you are saying that you are for it in some cases).
But what I have been trying to say, for the last few posts, is that masturbation and abortion are not comparable because masturbation does not produce an embryo.
A prevented pregnancy does not equal a terminated pregnancy.
Yes after masturbation a woman is not pregnant and yes after an abortion a woman is not pregnant.
However, the end result of masturbation is not dependent upon the status of a women and whether or not she is pregnant. The end result of masturbation is the expulsion of sperm (sperm which dies). Masturbation does not have to include a woman and can be done alone. So a woman and her pregnancy have no bearing on the end result of masturbation.
An abortion does not even require a pregnant women (with science an embryo could be formed without a women in a petri dish, but if that embryo were to be terminated the definition for it would be abortion.)
So the the end result of abortion is not completely dependent upon the status of the woman herself, but upon whether or not an embryo (or fetus) was terminated.
As a consequence of the natural human fertilization process (sex) an ovum (egg) is fertilized and an embryo is formed and hence a women becomes pregnant. So in all cases of abortion done on a women the women must be pregnant first. The end result of the abortion is the terminated embryo (or fetus) and as a consequence (or side effect) the women is left not pregnant. So the end result of an abortion is the termination of a pregnancy (embryo or fetus) it is not that a women is left unpregnant.
An abortion cannot exist without the termination of an embryo or fetus and therefore the end result of an abortion cannot exist without the fertilization of an ovum(egg). Since masturbation does not fertilize an ovum (egg) and a sperm is incapable of becoming a human being (and sperm is not an embryo or fetus) the end result of masturbation and abortion are different and the pregnancy status of a woman is not consequential for masturbation.
Yeah please lets move on lol. I know most people disagree with me on abortion but Im against it 100%.
Yeah please lets move on lol. I know most people disagree with me on abortion but Im against it 100%.
Care to explain why?
Care to explain why?
Lol.
I believe that you have a viable human being at conception so in effect the abortion of an embryo or fetus is the abortion of a human being.
(Now please don't get confused. What I was arguing before was that the end result of abortion is not the same as the end result of masturbation. I was also trying to point out that by definition abortion is the termination of a pregnancy (or embryo or fetus).
(I hope that everyone can agree that those are facts.)
The debate comes about abortion (what you just asked me now) is whether or not one believes the embryo or fetus is a human and/or at what point it becomes a human and then, in effect, whether or not abortion is right or wrong.
I believe an embryo and fetus equal a human and therefore abortion is wrong.)
Well I believe differently. It is not at a stage were it can think, and it is not living. If it can't think and is not living it is just a rock to me.
You say that now, but when you learn that you're going to be a father and you get all happy and the mother goes and gets an abortion w/out telling you, you'll think otherwise.
You say that now, but when you learn that you're going to be a father and you get all happy and the mother goes and gets an abortion w/out telling you, you'll think otherwise
We whould agree before hand if we wan't children... Its not like there are a ton of people were the dad once a child and the mom doesen't and they don't tell each other...
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