I am not here to argue because that would imply that am doing anything less than stating facts. And I just wrote this all before and it all god deleted because I backed up the web page and AG is the only poorly enough coded site that it doesn't auto keep my text on so I am keeping this way shorter than the last.
The problem with mods these days is that they are poorly picked, because we have a shortage of mods and instead of waiting for the right people to show up the wrong people get picked. This doesn't work. You should have a quota of mods, that makes no sense on a site that has to wait for mod-worthy people to come, you can't do that. If at one point you have 5 qualified mods, then that sucks for them, lots of more work, but if there is 15 why then not take them all instead of saying sorry we full.
But the latter isn't the issue, it is the former. An issue is that the distinction between a great user and a moderator doesn't exist. It actually does, me. I am a quality user that is not a mod, but many other mods just like me who fit in same category shouldn't be there, and I won't mention names, but everyone knows who I am talking about clearly, even the mod themselves, because even they realize they shouldn't be mods. Yes you, you all know who you are. These people are great users with great content and you've turned them into mods which has not only made them worse, but you ruining the community as well.
Anyone who is awesome you've swept from the AG community and turned into a moderator who shouldn't be there because they are power tripping and think anyone who criticizes them should be banned, and instead of letting kids deal with their problems just instantly ban half the populous. Most of the best community from the past, all the old users, have left. When I talk to them on MSN about why they left, almost every single one left because of the poorly manages mods, who were either nonexistent when needed or took action where they should have stopped nosing around.
These mods, who instead of spending their time posting fun threads and letting users do what they want, they ruin users fun because it's not constructive to the site. Take a step back, who are these rules meant to be helping? Oh right the majority of users. What happens when the same majority of users want to do something like make a spam thread or do something fun? They get banned. That doesn't make sense, this isn't US congress, laws aren't irreversible or inflexible. But instead of being normal people and letting small things slide, they act uptight(even though they were the exact opposite when normal members) and power trip and ban all the good users. Almost no one from the past is here on AG anymore and for a good reason.
The mods are suppose to be here to facilitate fun and help the community progress and all they do nowadays is deter that. You seem to forget that just like police you are here to serve and protect us, not harp over us and ruin your own community.
Also, once a mod is chosen I have never seen a single one be fired(except maybe 1). You guys are way to passive. There is no way on earth that every single one of the mods ever chosen have all been perfect. The same thing in a company, people hire others, realize it was a mistake and fire them. Not let them go AFK and sit there being useless or being a bad mod ruining the community and wait until they resign. You need to grow a pair, grow up, and take lead and fire other mods, stop being so passive towards each other you are just ruining armorgames.
Now I know this thread will just be ignored or locked by the mods. Because the one thing I always realize with you guys, is that you have lots of criticism for everyone else, but when ever so clear problems with you guys come up, you ignore it or delete and/or ban users who were completely in their right. I have tried for countless years to have anything done and nothing ever does because everyone is too scared to speak out and stop being useless.
The mods list right now is in terrible shape, stop ignoring me, stop telling me I am wrong with no reason and just banning me. Instead, try doing something, stop being little whimps and actually do something for a change, maybe you will finally make a right decision and stop ruining the community you are suppose to be supporting. This forum is so tiny compared to others I am on, it is insanely surprising to me how you have so much trouble dealing with such a small group of mods. But then again, I am not so surprised because it is a circle. Hiring terrible staff who wont admit when wrong and rectify errors leads to the best community-lead users hating the staff, making them leave,and these good players who make the community thrive leave, the community dies more,less good mods to chose from, and staff has then to pick from more shitty people to become mods, then we have more shitty mods.
Someone needs to break the cycle or else this site will keep getting worse. And if you don't like how brash I am being then I suggest someone finally either brings me to somewhere I can deal with this myself with someone who can actually do something or do it yourself. Because I don't say this for nothing, I say it because I know better.
@ at Owen: Reports are nice, but there is a fine line between reporting and snitching, am I rite?
Definitely.
And for that matter, think of the people who find it funny to make other people cry. Should they be having a funnyfun time, or should they be asked to stop?
I can imagine the comments people(I) would get: "Why aren't you in the chat?" "Are you online?" (Oh look, it's still there) "Want to chat?" "Chat?" "Why aren't you responding, I know you are online!!" "R U der?" (lol) "Are you ignoring me?" "Chat plz!!" "What are you doing, I want to chaaaat!!"
The 201 case made me want to cry. A lot. In frustration, anger and plain hopelessness with the userbase. Because some of the comments were THAT stupid.
I can imagine the comments people(I) would get: "Why aren't you in the chat?" "Are you online?" (Oh look, it's still there) "Want to chat?" "Chat?" "Why aren't you responding, I know you are online!!" "R U der?" (lol) "Are you ignoring me?" "Chat plz!!" "What are you doing, I want to chaaaat!!"
Those type of comments are stupid...A bunch of people try to get a bunch of AP by doing that...Aren't those comments like "Extended Conversations"? Or whatever it is?
The 201 case made me want to cry. A lot. In frustration, anger and plain hopelessness with the userbase. Because some of the comments were THAT stupid.
Also stupid, how when you warn them they just want to get themselves out of getting banned. Or they just don't admit that they spam when warned...
And sometimes friends try to back the person who got banned or is like arguing with a mod...Like someone mentioned earlier," WHY DID YOU BAN HIM?", "Wow, you banned (username)...You fail!" ," (username), did not do anything..."
Maybe we are looking at the chat room situation wrong and need to look at it from a different angle.....hmm.....
If there is just one big shoutbox on the main community page, it will surely decrease profile spam and would be very easy to moderate. I don't know what the old chatbox system was like, because I didn't exist on AG at that time, but if it was nothing like my idea, I think my suggestion should be given some thought.
I'm sure the idea has been tossed around, though, and it's obviously been shot down every time.
Also stupid, how when you warn them they just want to get themselves out of getting banned.
That's just an instinct. Most users in this age range who aren't trolls won't just say "I realize that I've done bad things, so I deserve to be banned". Even a temp-ban is a disaster to quite a few users.
Or they just don't admit that they spam when warned...
Now that's just stupid. Thanks to our non-private messaging system, it's very easy for anyone to pluck out spam and/or flaming. This is one reason private messaging wouldn't be a great idea: flamewars could happen constantly without anyone else even knowing about them. Therefore, flaming in PM form couldn't get you banned.
The 201 case made me want to cry. A lot. In frustration, anger and plain hopelessness with the userbase. Because some of the comments were THAT stupid.
whoa there. Don't you know how to make someone's self esteem burst through the roof
That's just an instinct. Most users in this age range who aren't trolls won't just say "I realize that I've done bad things, so I deserve to be banned". Even a temp-ban is a disaster to quite a few users.
Well let's see here, being temp banned isn't THAT bad. It's just a ban to make you learn the lesson. That would be the first ban. But second and beyond starts to get a bit serious. Again, not THAT serious. A perma would be very serious though...hah. But many users who aren't troll still refuse that they spam. Actually, some of them. I don't check on every mods profile, or I don't check every mods profile everyday so I wouldn't know much. Still...
Now that's just stupid. Thanks to our non-private messaging system, it's very easy for anyone to pluck out spam and/or flaming. This is one reason private messaging wouldn't be a great idea: flamewars could happen constantly without anyone else even knowing about them. Therefore, flaming in PM form couldn't get you banned.
Of course it's stupid. I find it soo stupid, beyond stupid. I mean what are you going to do when you are warned? Mods warn people for a reason. And there is no way you can fight back with a mod.
And also about the PMing. It didn't see what was the point if it anyway. I mean what do you need to talk about? Personal information? Or anything that requires PMing. There is always, email, private chats, etc.
Asking for a Private Message system is too much. Also like you explained the "secret" flaming thingy...
And also about the PMing. It didn't see what was the point if it anyway. I mean what do you need to talk about? Personal information? Or anything that requires PMing. There is always, email, private chats, etc.
On the formerly large site I was once a mod on, some moron started PM'ing some of their friends to start a rumor about the #1 user to get him banned. Multiple reports about the same "issue" with the #1 guy were sent to one of the mods to make him believe that the #1 guy was threatening all of them in the same way, and the mod believed it, so he just banned this guy without any actual proof other than a bunch of fake reports. The banned guy came back and claimed to not have done any of that, and since there was no proof either way, the mod decided to step down and have himself banned.
All because of private messaging.
To solve flamewars over PMs you could just install a forwarding option, send it to the mods for proof.
Just one more tool to install that people would hardly use. Non-private messaging is already a lot easier to handle, because everything is just out in the open and no secrets are kept.
Or for smarter people just screenshot it.
Easy enough to forge. Get the right font and it looks real enough to get someone banned for something they didn't do. That could lead to a similar situation as the one that happened on myninjakiwi.
If this "bigger picture" is fun, then why the rules enforced so strictly sometimes?
This is a good opportunity to explain the balance.
I call the above the "freedom of speech fallacy," because it's the one most commonly used by contrarians and public nuisances to justify their offensive attention-seeking methods (not to say that Owen was doing any of that). It's where one makes a case for "rights to freedom" but hasn't considered that there is a way to exercise a right that impinges on the rights of others. Our job is to ensure that those rights, as implied by the rules, are upheld as much as possible, and this means that some people will think we're being killjoys, because some people's idea of fun isn't compatible with others.
As Cenere has already explained, we cracked down on it for two reasons: 1) because it was becoming a real thorn in the side for MANY users 2) because eventually the rules were being violated. If we receive complaints or encounter problems, we don't ignore them.
That said, as Ernie has just recounted, we don't just act upon a complaint. Our protocol is to review the complaint before taking any action.
Oh, and Strop (as a somewhat inactive mod) looks at our efforts and laughs while shaking his head, because he was young and enthusiastic once. The users beat it out of him.
Well, not really the users, because that would be blaming one particular facet, whereas if I had to blame something, I would blame everything
Well, not really the users, because that would be blaming one particular facet, whereas if I had to blame something, I would blame everything
Me
@the 201 example: I had a good long talk with 201, trying to get hi to understand why we mods were telling him what we did. This tricked about 5-10 users going "Why are you banning him"/"Why do you hate 201". Considering 201 also had said I hated him, wanted him gone, whatever, I was getting somewhat - annoyed with the entire case. It did not get better when he was actually banned again (I think it was a few days later), because people apparently remember that I have posted on his profile, but hasn't read WHAT I posted, so they went out of their way asking me why he was banned, what I had against him, how what he did was so wrong, and generally hated on me. Considering I hadn't banned him, mainly because I pretty much had given up on the case, but also because I had talked to him about it, and thus kinda found myself to be too involved to do anything, it was really tempting to go about calling people names and scolding them. I did scold them, though. Whiteknighting is a pain in the rear to me, and it is something I will tell people to shut up with, because it will make them look worse than the original offender. Yet, there they were, again. It took a long time of replying to comments to get the users to quiet down and understand what had happened. And yet I still get those comments every time someone bans 201, because I obviously am the one responsible. So yeah, mr. 201's friend with the same name: It was kittentickling annoying, and I tell you the posts were stupid and aggressive and most of all: they shouldn't be there. I even get them when he just isn't online for a while.
/rant
Because above annoys me. A lot. Cen is not amused by assumptions.
Wow cenere, every one of your posts so far almost have been just hating on on 201. I can see why people were saying you had it out for him.
Which is a lie, considering I was actually trying to help him not get banned. I am however considering taking it as harassment, since people still say I am trying to get him kicked or whatever, especially since I did ask him to understand I was trying to help. In other news, the people I don't like is those of his friends who apparently believe I am out to get him, that I have banned him, or that I generally interact with him. To tell you this: I don't. I don't hate on him, I dislike the trouble he and the little white knights give me.
To make it easier to understand: Would you love people telling lies about you, accusing you of not only abusing your powers but also doing something you haven't, and be generally rude to you because they think you did something you didn't?
Considering I haven't talked to him, interacted with him or generally been on his profile page since sometime this winter (where I tried to explain to him why the other mods were warning him all the time), yeah, it is totally me who is out to get him and ban him all the time. I laugh at this, because the only reason people think this, is because I actually tried to solve the problem, and not just banned him.
Wow cenere, every one of your posts so far almost have been just hating on on 201. I can see why people were saying you had it out for him.
To be honest, none of these issues are any of your business. Think whatever you want of Cen but give me credit for being the one to actually ban him. Would be appreciated. Thanks.