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NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

The Road to CanadaCare? Sally Pipes on The Truth About ObamaCare

This lady is Fing crazy. There's no way national health care can fail. It's a fail proof plan. Obama plans on giving people MORE health care options, not create a monopoly.

Look at this lady. She is obviously faking her scenario.

Ok, maybe I am being biased only posting stuff from ReasonTV, an obviously biased and corrupted source. Nobody else out there is as misinformed as Reason TV, are they?

What about this guy? Hmm, he seems pretty crazy as well. I don't trust his real time, non rehearsed approach. I guess there are other nut jobs out there.

Thisperson was obviously hired by Fox news to lie. It's a conspiracy, I swear.

Canadian health care is awesome. I'm glad America is run by Liberals. Power to the people, through government control and regulation!

  • 79 Replies
holt24
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holt24
1,133 posts
Nomad

Is this a joke?

Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
9,504 posts
Jester

You could say that the U.S.'s health care plan was more or less adopted from Canada's, with some fine-tuning here and there. It's good we have health care; people want what they NEED, not everything else.

It's the opposite; the health insurance companies are the monopoly and, to make sure they don't lose too much money, do not provide coverage for pre-existing conditions, which is utter bull. A guy with frequent heart problems goes into the insurance company and gets everything insured BUT his heart. That's why he went over there for!

Power to the people, through government control and regulation!


Without regulation, big business, companies, and the government can do whatever they damn well please
wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

I find it hilarious that so many people are against a universal healthcare system. If you look at the vast majority of industrialized western world countries they have this system. In 2007 France was voted to have the best healthcare system in the world while the U.S ranked 37. Canada placed in at 27. I would rather pay taxes and know I'm secure than fret over not being able to pay bills if I land myself in a hospital.

holt24
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holt24
1,133 posts
Nomad

My problem isn't whether the health system will be better but that every little bit of power the government has the less the people do and freedom is worth more than all the health in the world.

EnterOrion
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EnterOrion
4,220 posts
Nomad

Nemo, I love your sarcasm.

However, I must say that there should be a bottom barrel healthc-- owait. There is. HAS ANYONE EVER HEARD OF EFFING MEDICADE?

Obviously not. And if your old, it sounds cooler: MEDICARE!

Gee, I wonder what fool came up with these brilliant ideas.

wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

My problem isn't whether the health system will be better but that every little bit of power the government has the less the people do and freedom is worth more than all the health in the world.


You can't enjoy freedom if you're sick, or dead.
holt24
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holt24
1,133 posts
Nomad

I love the videos it makes liberals look like jerks.ha ha.

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

You could say that the U.S.'s health care plan was more or less adopted from Canada's, with some fine-tuning here and there.


How so?

It's the opposite; the health insurance companies are the monopoly


Really? If there are 10 health insurance companies competing against each other, it's not a monopoly.

1.
exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices.


You were saying what about Monopolies?

A guy with frequent heart problems goes into the insurance company and gets everything insured BUT his heart. That's why he went over there for!


That's because you can't go into insurance with pre-existing conditions and expect for those conditions to be covered. I hate insurance as much as the next person, that is exactly why I don't want universal health insurance that forces you to pay for insurance.

Without regulation, big business, companies, and the government can do whatever they **** well please


Government control and government regulation. You obviously misunderstood me. Figure out what Free Market Economy is and understand that the government is moving away from the free market.

If you look at the vast majority of industrialized western world countries they have this system. In 2007 France was voted to have the best healthcare system in the world while the U.S ranked 37. Canada placed in at 27. I would rather pay taxes and know I'm secure than fret over not being able to pay bills if I land myself in a hospital.


Where does Canada rank compared to the US? Look at the videos I linked to. I believe your ranking system could be BS.

I would rather pay taxes and know I'm secure than fret over not being able to pay bills if I land myself in a hospital.


Then pay for private health insurance. Just because you want to pay more taxes and be covered doesn't mean I want the same thing. So greedy.

I don't have health insurance because I can't afford it and I choose not to have it. Nation health care is NOT free and I can't even afford to pay 100 dollars a month. Why must I be FORCED to pay for health care?

Driving a car is a privilege. If you don't want to pay for car insurance or pay a hefty fine, then don't drive.

Living is a right... well... it was a right. Now, living is a privilege. If you don't want to pay for insurance or pay a hefty fine, then don't live... wait... what?!

Seriously, it's like putting a tax on the fucking air that we breath. I HAVE NO CHOICE.

Do you not want to live in a free country? Free as in, you have the ability to choose what you want to do in your life, not the one where the gov. takes your money and forces you to buy insurance with it, but because it's considered a tax, the insurance is considered free because it isn't being payed straight out of your pocket. Manipulative, huh?

The media has you brainwashed into thinking this is a moral issue. Fine, let's call it a moral issue. We are forcing people to pay for something they don't want. That is wrong and immoral.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

A round of applause for NoName. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has actually read the details of the propositions being put forth. Now if only everyone else would read them instead of watching whatever news show they prefer summarize the headlines we might be able to end this bullcrap.

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

You can't enjoy freedom if you're sick, or dead.


I'm sorry, did you watch any of the videos I linked?
Paradoxymoron
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Paradoxymoron
65 posts
Nomad

Government control and government regulation. You obviously misunderstood me. Figure out what Free Market Economy is and understand that the government is moving away from the free market.


The more you control and regulate the more you dilute a free market. If an industry as important as healthcare needs to be regulated to a high degree, why advocate it on the basis that it is more efficient because it exists in a free market?

Where does Canada rank compared to the US? Look at the videos I linked to. I believe your ranking system could be BS.


I don't believe that years of academic studies as well as universally accepted health ranking criteria can be so easily belittled by a clearly right leaning youtube channel.

I was born at an NHS (Britain) hospital. I see an NHS GP, dentist etc. I am a surprisingly healthy 18 year old smoker drinker and all round lazy git. The NHS works extremely well. No, it's not as good as private health care, but it does the job. And if you want the sometimes better healthcare, you can pay for it. Many don't. Only 10% of Brits opt to go private (many more could afford it). 84% of Americans do. That's a very telling statistic and one that supports UHC's value. The UKs life expectancy is higher, infant mortality rates are lower, the number of doctors and nurses per capita is higher. Healthcare costs are lower as a of GDP and the per capita is barely 2/5 of the USA's.

If a similar system arrived in America, it's overwhelmingly likely that those paying for private healthcare would see little to no difference. Of course this would be paid for out of taxes $120bn apparently, which is peanuts to the US economy, a cost which would be gained back by much cheaper preventative healthcare, rather than much more costly later treatment, and by having a healthier nation as a whole.

Furthermore, the US' health system is already the most expensive in the world.

As to how it'd be compared to private, I'd imagine there would be some government run hospitals and some contracts with private companies.

In closing I'd always support free healthcare being available to all citizens of a country when they need it. And overall I'm a capitalist. Yes, the American system probably is the world's best if you can afford it and I'll readily admit that if I was rich and needed a lot of care, I'd be the first on a plane to the US with the address of a private hospital in my pocket.

But it's crap for those who can't afford it. I believe it will remain one of the best for those who can afford it even with UHC for those who can't.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Then, instead of reforming healthcare for everyone, and mandating that everyone must have healthcare and those who don't qualify must purchase it, why don't we instead increase the financial cutoff for the already existing government healthcare (which I am on, and works relatively well, although is crap compared to when I carried private insurance) so that those who need insurance but cannot afford it can get it. This would reduce the amount of tax dollars needed to support the reform, as well as maintaining the high standard of care that we get with healthcare services being mandated by free market as opposed to government control.

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

In closing I'd always support free healthcare being available to all citizens of a country when they need it.


Except... it isn't free.

The UKs life expectancy is higher, infant mortality rates are lower, the number of doctors and nurses per capita is higher. Healthcare costs are lower as a of GDP and the per capita is barely 2/5 of the USA's.


If I remember correctly, don't Canadians also have a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality rates? I could be wrong, I am going by memory. If you have a serious problem, then you have waiting lines to trudge through. Rather than paying a little more money to get the help you need, you have to wait to be judged if your injury is serious enough to be treated right away.

I hate using the argument you presented in any healthcare debate. Life expectancy is effected by many different variables outside of medical care. Life expectancy can be effected by people who are killed instantly and don't make it to the hospital, car accidents, climate, how much people work out, diets, so on and so on.

If someone goes into a hospital with private insurance, they may gain immediate treatment that is better than someone who has national insurance. Let's suppose that person gets into a car accident. If you look at average life expectancy, the person with national insurance lives longer. However, you can't tell if he lived longer because of the medical care he received or if he merely lived longer due to the fact he doesn't drive.

If you want to measure how effective health care is, you need to look at specific effects such as how efficient the costs are, how efficient the hospitals and other medical centers are, how reliable hospitals and medical centers are, and we need to look ONLY at the people who come and go from the hospital.

In a nutshell, life expectancy is not the way to measure how effective health care is or is not.

A country can be at war, have the best health care, and have the lowest life expectancy.

Furthermore, the US' health system is already the most expensive in the world.


Yet, the US still is able to maintain a high standard of living.

"Most expensive in the world" can mean anything!
Maybe medical care is so expensive most Americans can't afford it?
Maybe Americans are so rich they can afford to pay more for medical care?

You can't really tell what most expensive really means.

But it's crap for those who can't afford it. I believe it will remain one of the best for those who can afford it


Who says most Americans can't afford it? Who says most Americans can't find a way to pay off their medical bills? Also, who says most Americans need medical care in the first place?! People who don't want to pay for insurance and don't have medical problems get the very best value of anyone... they lose no money at all! I'm healthy, young, and don't (didn't) plan on wasting my money on health care until I had a better job or if I started having problems or if I was actually older.

Do you know the chances of me having health problems at my age that would need medical attention? The chances are VERY VERY low. Sure, I may end up having health problems at a young age, but statistically, that probably isn't going to happen. That's a gamble I'm willing to take. Odds are in my favor. Now, I'm being forced to pay for health insurance. Now, odds are against me. The chances of me paying for health care I will not use are VERY VERY high.

I don't want to be forced to pay for a safety net. I'm not walking on a right rope, I am walking on a steel bridge with sturdy railing.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

I'm not walking on a tightrope, I am walking on a steel bridge with sturdy railing. It is statistically against my favor to rent a safety net.

holt24
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holt24
1,133 posts
Nomad

Obamacare makes me sad because now are great country is becoming a tundra like Canada.

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