Forums → WEPR → Believing in God brings its own Hell
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Let's get this first thing straightened out: the title isn't literal, it's metaphorical. Just think, without religion the world would be much better. No disputes over the "right" thing to believe. That means no wars over religion. We'd have more money because we wouldn't have to donate, build churches, etc. We'd have an overall better outlook on life because our consciouses wouldn't be so powerful.
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So what? If there's less, that's better, that's all there is to it. You can't just say it only gets better if it completely stops because obviously any decrease at all is a victory.
I'm saying that disputes should stay words. If it's just words, no harm done. Any civilized person will keep these disputes as words, so the problem is extremest making mountains out of mole hills and starting wars.
We wouldn't have so many things that would be considered "wrong" such as being gay, worrying about who's worshiping who, worrying about what's in our pledge of allegiance "In god we trust"
Well, being gay isn't viewed as wrong by many religious people, its viewed as something that shouldn't be done. Once again, its extremest enforcing their beliefs on other people. As for "in god we trust", i have always found this to be an extremely stupid phrase America uses on dollars and in the pledge of allegiance.
No witch hunts, no mccarthyism, no crusades, the twin towers would still be standing, several thousand boys would not have been forcibly sodomized by catholic priests....I consider those good things.
So the world will be better without crazy people who take things to far.
It would, for starters the middle east would calm the **** down for once.
Once again, it should be resolved with words.
Well, being gay isn't viewed as wrong by many religious people
-As said by, I assume, an atheist. Every religious person I know, including me, are extremely against gay rights. Who do you think is arguing the "no" side of the argument?
@All of your other posts master565
People are angry idiots. You can just expect everyone to resolve the world's problems with words. There'll be some major fighting, unfortunately.
You can just expect everyone to resolve the world's problems with words.
I'm an idiot sometimes, too. I mean they *can't* resolve everything with words.
People are angry idiots. You can just expect everyone to resolve the world's problems with words. There'll be some major fighting, unfortunately.
So what your saying is that it isn't religion, its humanity being generally angry and using religion as one of their many ways to start an argument.
So what your saying is that it isn't religion, its humanity being generally angry and using religion as one of their many ways to start an argument.
What? No! How did I even seem to imply that in the least bit of sense? I meant they can't solve the world's problems with just words. People, being angry, will often resort to violence. It's just our natural instincts working up.
well its true the world would be more peacefull without reilgion. BUT: the world would be peacefull if it would only consist of peacefull people. it would be peacefull if wars wouldnt exist and it would be peaceful if weapons wouldnt exist. it would also be peacefull if people would accept each other.
religion is not the thing that makes people go to wars you know (at least not the main)
No witch hunts, no mccarthyism, no crusades, the twin towers would still be standing, several thousand boys would not have been forcibly sodomized by catholic priests....I consider those good things.
Well, to be fair, we have to remember that many religions promote charities, family togetherness, a reason to stop doing bad, and so on. Although many bad things come from religion, there are also good things as well. I suppose the thing we need to do is determine if the bad outweighs the good. If so, what are some ways we can promote tolerance and open mindedness?
If we can recognize the evils that come from religion, we should also recognize the good as well.
The problem with religion is that many people are against certain things purely because of their religion, where being good happens regardless of whether you are an atheist or not (generally). If you're donating because you love God, chances are you would donate if you were an atheist as well. If you're against homosexuals because your church taught you that homosexuality was wrong, there's a good chance you wouldn't be against homosexuality if you weren't raised in a religion or anti-homosexual environment. I believe this is the main tipping point in why I would rather live in a world without religion.
I believe there are, however, multiple solutions to promote tolerance and open mindedness. I believe it's easier to encourage theists to accept homosexuality than it is to convert them to atheism.
@thebluerabbit
We've said that many a time earlier. Please read up on what's already been said.
What? No! How did I even seem to imply that in the least bit of sense? I meant they can't solve the world's problems with just words. People, being angry, will often resort to violence. It's just our natural instincts working up.
I keep hearing "eople, being angry, will often resort to violence It's just our natural instincts working up". That means that even without religion people will fight. Also, majority of religious people today wont start a war over religion, It's mostly the middle east.
I keep hearing "eople, being angry, will often resort to violence It's just our natural instincts working up". That means that even without religion people will fight. Also, majority of religious people today wont start a war over religion, It's mostly the middle east.
Yeah, I could've sworn a few other users talked about this last page. Or maybe page 1. >___> LOOK AT IT!
Europe was doing quite well as a religious society back in the day, too, you know.
Also, in the Dark Ages, Churches were pretty good places for education.
Certainly it brought its own advancements to human civilization, however, it brought with it an attitude of religious dominance. Here's an excerpt from Christopher Columbus' journal, and although it does not mention Christianity or god, we must remember that ideas of dominance during this period were fueled primarily by religion and the church:
"[The Arawaks] willingly traded everything they owned... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane... They would make fine servants... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want." (from "A People's History of the United States" by Howard Zinn)
These are the attitudes that were instilled in man, in part through religion, and these are the mentalities that drove movements such as the "Manifest Destiny" movement that only furthered the genocide of the American Indian peoples.
Certainly it brought its own advancements to human civilization,
Uh, like what? Back then, anyone who might have been considered a scientist was deemed a heretic or something akin to that and killed/murdered/ostracized/exocommunicated etc. All having a religious domineering society back then was stifle and hold back any advancement whatsoever.
Uh, like what? Back then, anyone who might have been considered a scientist was deemed a heretic or something akin to that and killed/murdered/ostracized/exocommunicated etc. All having a religious domineering society back then was stifle and hold back any advancement whatsoever.
I don't doubt that it was crude and ill-fated as a society, however, religious fervor brought about modernity. Technology and societal advancement is, unfortunately, a matter of trial and error. Without religion, we would not have seen the French Revolution, which is in many ways credited for the rise of modernity.
We could have the same arguments about nationalism. Although I despise nationalism, it lead to World War I and also to World War II, which resulted in an understanding of global unity (though we have a long way to come, we have unified groups such as the United Nations that rose from these horrible events).
Sorry for the potential double-post, but I wanted to expand on my point now that I've thought about it for a whole 2 minutes more...
Nationalism was a driving force in the rise of Nazi Germany, which lead directly to the Nuremburg trials after much in-between. With the Nuremburg trials came a sense that what you do in your own country is not just your own business, but is the business of all others as well (manifested in many ways as war crimes and the international ban on genocide). Certainly we haven't corrected the problem, but we have identified it and are getting better at stopping crimes against humanity. This I will attribute to nationalism, however terrible it is.
The same can be said of pre-modern religion; it brought with it terrible things, but we learned from those mistakes and are constantly trying to progress from that point.
it lead to World War I and also to World War II, which resulted in an understanding of global unity (though we have a long way to come, we have unified groups such as the United Nations that rose from these horrible events).
I'm not aware of this. Could you provide a link? Preferably one not from Wikipedia.
The same can be said of pre-modern religion; it brought with it terrible things, but we learned from those mistakes and are constantly trying to progress from that point.
We obviously aren't. I mean, look at Israel. They've been in turmoil ever since Jesus walked the holy land. They haven't learned from their mistakes yet.
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