Forums → WEPR → A Paradox: Why would a benign God create penultimate evil
| 134 | 20545 |
just a question i've always had, and just so we are clear, this is not a question pertaining to any specific religion, it is simply a hypothetical.
please don't cite religious texts, i'd like to hear your personal opinions from purely rational viewpoints
- 134 Replies
If you have a problem with religion, you don't have to be rude.
It comes down to being rude because, eventually, any debate with someone religious boils down to, "I'm right you're wrong, god is on my side."
I don't go around saying "atheists are lame and crazy!".
I wouldn't much care if you did, you can say all you want, it really doesn't bother me.
If you have a problem with people trying to force it on you, fine, be mad at those people
You are apart of that group which is trying to force it on us. You hold the same beliefs, you are just not as vocal about it.
Just don't slander the whole religion just because of what a couple of people decided what they wanted to do with it
If it was "just a couple" of people, no one would really have problems with it, that's to be expected that you have your crazies. It's NOT just a couple of people though, it's A LOT of people.
Most of what they do, I don't even like, so stop the stereotyping and the generalizations.
Then *why* do you believe what they do? If you don't like what they're doing, wouldn't it make sense that you wouldn't be apart of it?
It's what the majority wants, you live with the majority, and the majority just so happens to be religious.
The majority isn't always right.
Just because you are choosing to say that their ideology is baseless, does not mean you gain the right to disrespect others
I'm not choosing to say it's baseless, i'm saying it's baseless because it is. There's absolutely nothing backing up religion other than fairy tales and old books, and people who claim to "hear voices" but anyone who "hears voices" that don't pertain to religion are crazy? Yeah, Right.
If your idea was so grand then it would make sense for all of us to cut religion from our lives,
Except for religion has a fail safe built in, it's called, "No thought." If anyone questions your religion, they're wrong, end of discussion. *Plugs ears and goes NA-NA-NA-NA*
It comes down to being rude because, eventually, any debate with someone religious boils down to, "I'm right you're wrong, god is on my side."I don't. More stereotyping.
I wouldn't much care if you did, you can say all you want, it really doesn't bother me.If we did it like you guys do to christians, you'd be offended.
You are apart of that group which is trying to force it on us. You hold the same beliefs, you are just not as vocal about it.Most, in fact, suggest a change in belief. They don't force it. Others, such as radicals and crazies, do try and force beliefs. Also, I'd like to add that just because me and some other guy believe in the same book, doesn't mean that we interpret it the same.
If it was "just a couple" of people, no one would really have problems with it, that's to be expected that you have your crazies. It's NOT just a couple of people though, it's A LOT of people.The only people I know that do that are older people (50's and above) and that's because they are afraid of the change that society is taking. Most of that "forcing" is caused by insecurity within their beliefs. They aren't so sure about their religion (due to poor teachings, biased information), so in order to keep their type of tranquility, they deny most types of logic. It's simple human psychology.
Then *why* do you believe what they do? If you don't like what they're doing, wouldn't it make sense that you wouldn't be apart of it?It boils down to how you interpret the Bible. We believe in the same core teachings, but some of the minuscule subjects not mentioned in the Bible, we disagree.
I'm not choosing to say it's baseless, i'm saying it's baseless because it is. There's absolutely nothing backing up religion other than fairy tales and old books, and people who claim to "hear voices" but anyone who "hears voices" that don't pertain to religion are crazy? Yeah, Right.Generalizing. There was a story around my area of a little girl who had to get her leg amputated. She said that she heard God's voice. She hasn't shown any signs of schizophrenia, or insanity, yet she heard Him. Why would she lie?
Except for religion has a fail safe built in, it's called, "No thought." If anyone questions your religion, they're wrong, end of discussion. *Plugs ears and goes NA-NA-NA-NA*I don't recall ever doing that. More stereotyping.
Generalizing. There was a story around my area of a little girl who had to get her leg amputated. She said that she heard God's voice. She hasn't shown any signs of schizophrenia, or insanity, yet she heard Him. Why would she lie?
Because she wants to have hope in something, and a story of an all powerful, loving god is quite appealing to small children?
It comes down to being rude because, eventually, any debate with someone religious boils down to, "I'm right you're wrong, god is on my side."
Except for religion has a fail safe built in, it's called, "No thought." If anyone questions your religion, they're wrong, end of discussion. *Plugs ears and goes NA-NA-NA-NA*
I don't recall ever doing that. More stereotyping.
I'll get back to you on this.
God would have to create evil in order for something to be evil. A good being would not corrupt something to be evil unless it was not good in the first place, which would mean something must have corrupted it/created evil, but since God is the ultimate creator and good, he would never create evil. Therefore, evil does not exist and never has. Every creature to have ever existed has been good.
Then whatever you do is good and there are no sins yet the bible says things are sins so therefore the bible is wrong and so god is wrong and that means evil could exist since no good person could make the bible so the bible must be bad.
Hey guys, talking about Harry Potter? Questioning a plot element? Here's your answer: It's fiction! Yeah, right there, you've got it. Fiction. Totally invalidates any discussion of it. Can't talk about logic or internal consistency with fiction. Bet you guys didn't even know Harry Potter was fiction going in, did you? Otherwise you would have seen that talking about it is so utterly impossible. Good thing you had my keen eye, innit? Glad I was clever enough to catch that one.
Everyone knows HP is fiction. Some deluded people say the bible is not. When people discuss HP they are discussing why it was written that way as books have an underlying logic. There is a fundamental diffeence. See how annoying it is when people think they are being clever and sound stupid.
There you go again, disrespecting my lifestyle. Not just mine, but over 30% of the world's lifestyle. If you have a problem with religion, you don't have to be rude. I don't go around saying "atheists are lame and crazy!". I respect what you have chosen to believe (or rather, what you don't believe). If you have a problem with people trying to force it on you, fine, be mad at those people. Just don't slander the whole religion just because of what a couple of people decided what they wanted to do with it. Most of what they do, I don't even like, so stop the stereotyping and the generalizations.
If religions had no power we would have no problems with them and religions have power because people follow them and so if people didn't follow religion we would have no problem so by following religion people are affecting us and we have a right to be annoyed.
Well, laws are made by a majority. Of course if you are someone that does not agree with the law, for any reason, you will feel as if this group of people is forcing their ideals on you. It's what the majority wants, you live with the majority, and the majority just so happens to be religious. Just because you are choosing to say that their ideology is baseless, does not mean you gain the right to disrespect others.If your idea was so grand then it would make sense for all of us to cut religion from our lives, but obviously that isn't happening.
Well here in england at least there is not a majority who believe the stupider parts of the bible and as we don't have a uited majority then religion can't dictate the laws. And with the separation fo church and state they have very little influence. And considering all the little group of a religion since atheism has no divergent groups jut on unified belief we have a majority state of belief I think. So we have the right until they6 can provide evidence.
It boils down to how you interpret the Bible. We believe in the same core teachings, but some of the minuscule subjects not mentioned in the Bible, we disagree.
the one core teaching is that god should be worshiped. I don't have a problem with that. The other things are all really contradictory that you cherry pick the parts that support your opinion.
Generalizing. There was a story around my area of a little girl who had to get her leg amputated. She said that she heard God's voice. She hasn't shown any signs of schizophrenia, or insanity, yet she heard Him. Why would she lie?
She has her leg amputated! Do you really think she was thinking clearly. Maybe a dream or hallucination. I mean she must be on painkillers. And muslims hear god, jews hear god, hindus hear god, you can't all be right.
There you go again, disrespecting my lifestyle. Not just mine, but over 30% of the world's lifestyle. If you have a problem with religion, you don't have to be rude. I don't go around saying "atheists are lame and crazy!". I respect what you have chosen to believe (or rather, what you don't believe). If you have a problem with people trying to force it on you, fine, be mad at those people. Just don't slander the whole religion just because of what a couple of people decided what they wanted to do with it. Most of what they do, I don't even like, so stop the stereotyping and the generalizations.
I'm going to try and be well reasoned about this. When any religious person shouts "You're persecuting my lifestyle! Stop being stereotypical!" I have to stop and wonder. Why? Well it's quite simple. I am not not persecuting YOU, I am persecuting your beliefs. Those beliefs, in essence are not yours because millions of others hold to the same beliefs.
When a religious person shouts "Stop persecuting me." I then must say, "Stop persecuting others." Religions, especially those born of the Hebrew God, are notorious for the persecusion of minorities. A perfect example of this would be homosexuals. In America, and elsewhere, but America is nailed for this alot, groups of so called "Christians" protest gay rights. They impede social diversity and growth. Those self same "Christians" then go forth and spew slander, generalizations, stereotypes, and lies about homosexals.
So, I'll tell you what. You, as a group, stop with your bigotry, self righteousness, false cries for help, and general attacks on minority groups that disagree with your beliefs, and I'll stop bothering you about it. So, mysteriousmexican, do not sit there and shout, "Persecution!" when there are those out there who are truly being persecuted by the faith you belong to. And no, I'm not into caring what your personal feelings are on this matter, because regardless of how you yourself feel, you cannot pick and choose which parts of your religion to follow.
It boils down to how you interpret the Bible. We believe in the same core teachings, but some of the minuscule subjects not mentioned in the Bible, we disagree.
Yes you do have some unifying core beliefs, though the things that are disagreed are I would all call it minuscule. Just on here I see disagreements on how you get into Heaven, what constitutes Hell, what is and is not a sin, how severer certain sins are.
I find a lot of this to be rather pointless looking at it from my perspective but if I actually believed this stuff I would consider these point quite important.
When people discuss HP they are discussing why it was written that way as books have an underlying logic.And we were discussing the philosophy of religion before you idiots got here. Nihilism is bad enough, but when you're too blind to see anything else? Eh, what's the point?
There is a fundamental diffeence.That's how analogies work. The reason my Harry Potter analogy works is because of how the two concepts are similar. My entire point was that whether or not the work/religion is fiction is neither what is being discussed nor relevant to what is being discussed.
You have every right to believe Pi=3, as stated in 1 KingsLearn to read.
Learn to feminism. Don't tell people to man up. It implies that women lack mental fortitude.
So rather then whine how you are a poor oppressed theist, step up and man up.
E1337, why "tackle superstition" at all? Seriously, did religion kill your parents or something?
Don't tell people to man up. It implies that women lack mental fortitude.
It's a common phrase, it is implying that the other guy has a lack of mental fortitude in comparison to other men.
Also, calling something bull**** isn't as respectful as just saying "I don't believe in that because it's stupid and doesn't make sense to me". I don't want to sound like a poor and oppressed theist, but screaming bull**** doesn't make you much of a man, either.
Xzeno, do you even have an argument, or are you just going to keep insulting everyone?
E1337, why "tackle superstition" at all? Seriously, did religion kill your parents or something?
I don't know about his parents but superstition did kill these children.
What's the Harm: Gloria Thomas Sam
Nigeria's child witch scandal: Children killed as witches - Africannewslive.com
Religion Kills (Feb 7, 2010)
Child Dies because of Parents Religious Beliefs
And this is just a small handful of cases. So tell me are these enough reasons to fight against superstition or should I go find more?
And we were discussing the philosophy of religion before you idiots got here. Nihilism is bad enough, but when you're too blind to see anything else? Eh, what's the point?
There is a fundamental difference. I already said this but I guess you can't read very well as you suffer from extreme stupidity. Everyone knows hP is ficrion. Some deluded people say the bible is not. We talk about how the bible shows god as evil but says he is good and as it is contradictory can't be true. And please get someone to read you this before you try and reply.
E1337, why "tackle superstition" at all? Seriously, did religion kill your parents or something?
No but it killed everyone at the twin towers, suppresses scientific research, led to the rise of many many hate groups and has caused pointless conflict the whole world over.
Learn to feminism. Don't tell people to man up. It implies that women lack mental fortitude.
Man up and realize it's an expression.
E1337, why "tackle superstition" at all? Seriously, did religion kill your parents or something?
Er...
Mage gets +1 for the links provided.
Also, calling something bull**** isn't as respectful as just saying "I don't believe in that because it's stupid and doesn't make sense to me". I don't want to sound like a poor and oppressed theist, but screaming bull**** doesn't make you much of a man, either.
A nice example of how I don't agree with all atheists. It's a good thing in the end because I don't speak for anyone, even if they follow the same basic beliefs as me, and it works vice versa. E1337, MageGrayWolf, Samy and many other people have particularly different views on different subjects and their methods of showing it may be familiar but still not identical - of course it stands for theists as well but when it comes to philisophical beliefs most of it comes from the Bible for theists whereas we develop our own from what we've learnt.
No but it killed everyone at the twin towers, suppresses scientific research, led to the rise of many many hate groups and has caused pointless conflict the whole world over.
Pointless Conflict
The Crusades. Dang terrible affair if you ask me. That, and the Hundred Years War could be partially blamed by religion, considering Kings and Queens are chosen by God, apparently.
- H
I'm just going to go ahead and try to answer the OP. He doesn't stop all of the bad things we do, because it won't change anything in the long run. We won't thank God and vow never to do harm again. Something else will just happen. More bombs, war, guns, violence. God is probably just tired of us. Don't worry though, he probably won't kill us off since that would be a waste of time.
You must be logged in to post a reply!