Forums → WEPR → The Religion Debate Thread

@Hahiha Hey there ! =) first of all thanks for replying to what I think

That goes for matter and energy, but not necessarily for living beings. The building blocks remain, but the structure is broken down, or 'dies'.

Let me ask you a question for you what is a living thing ? I personally think all that is around us is living, not it the same way but I think things like rock and stuff like that, live too. They can't talk with us but can communicate too, our planet is not a simple big sphere in the space in my opinion but like a super body x'D it can be weird I agree but it's make sense to me.

What exactly do you mean by "our frequency"? Assuming you mean a voice, that wouldn't work since the 'voice' is just air that is stimulated at a certain frequency by our vocal chords. Without a physical body, you couldn't speak, nor 'exist' as a frequency.

Hahaha by reading me again I agree I wasn't very clear, One more time it's my supposition but I think light is energy and when energy is submitted to a specific frequency it take a matter form.
It's like water with a specific frequency you can make water doing some weird thing like changing the flow sens.

I think when we die. Our heart who's like a sort of electro magnetic generator in my opinion stop so we doesn't vibrate anymore and then the connexion with our body who's as a vehicle is broken.
So we are like a car without key we still exist but we can't move our wheel. But I think something survive maybe our conscience, we cannot communicate with a voice but I'm pretty sure we can in another form, like infra-sound maybe or another way it's not like a voice with as you said it's impossible whitout physical body(I can't really tell actually because i'm alive x'D)

I'm wondering what makes you so sure of that?

As for that I think we're not here for nothing, it's maybe a way to experiment material things
If I could comparate life with a video games, it's like you live in a 2D world and want to experiment a 3 D one, so for me maybe "die" here is just a way to travel into another dimension or time-line there is so many possibilities so I'm sure we will not just disappear. Besides of that fear is useless, it's just a mechanism who try to break you we're better than that isn't it ?

Let me know if you're interested to debate about this

Yeah It could be interesting ^^ !

@nichodemus

Fear does play a large role.

Sadly it's true.. People seems to use fear for abuse of people and control them :/

Let me ask you a question for you what is a living thing ?

One more time it's my supposition but I think light is energy and when energy is submitted to a specific frequency it take a matter form.

Our heart who's like a sort of electro magnetic generator in my opinion

so we doesn't vibrate anymore and then the connexion with our body who's as a vehicle is broken.

As for that I think we're not here for nothing, it's maybe a way to experiment material things

Yeah It could be interesting ^^ !

@KatPryde

But, there must be some end-point - regardless of an end-goal - in debates, or discussions, or arguments, or whatever. I was just trying to say that in my perspective we're (that is, Fish and I) approaching a beating-a-dead-horse phase, if we haven't already gotten there. I just don't care anymore.

There is no need to have a purpose about everything Most of the regulars here seem to be here exactly because they simply enjoy debating. Why would the existence of a point, an end goal, be necessary? If there is no point, then there is also no beating-a-dead-horse-phase as you put it As for not caring, that I believe ties in with your sense of obligation, which is a different matter xD

@HahiHa

Even the most pleasant afterlife will get boring eventually, and gruesome after an eternity. This is just how human nature is;

Well, to make this about religion specifically, the concept of eternity in Heaven is built around people which will be presumably devoid of their human weaknesses. People that are perfect and such people do not get bored, frustrated, do not sin, etc. it is also worthy to point out that Adam and Eve were not such people, even before eating the fruit

The exact definition of life can be tricky if you go into the details, for example are viruses alive or not, that kind of issues. But generally speaking, it can be said that a living being is a reproducing organism with a metabolism. As such, a rock is definitely not alive. I am not aware of a single instance of a rock 'communicating', but if you do, please point me to it

I've understand what you want to explain, But I personally think we need to see further than this definition. In my perception if something is around you it's living because it's materialized, otherwise it will not be here, when things die they dematerialize, in a way that you can't see them but they just moved to another state.

It make more sense for me I can understand that this is not very conventional x'D. As I said I just share my own opinion and I don't want to convince anyone Hahaha but it's the way I feel it

As for the rock communication, it's not a way than a rock will say you hello x'D but once again when we interact with their own field we share some stuff in the both side, some rock as examples can heal you in some way, have you heard of lithotherapy ? It's an alternative medicine.. So again not conventional x'D

So I don't think your propositions would pass scrutiny in the light of our understanding of physics.

Totally agree with all that x'D but history tends to affirm theory are constantly born and break one day so I will not be surprised if in the future someone will break what we actually know.

I'm not a scientist too so I've think about alternative as what we have learn with school.

One thing is sure, our comprehension is always focused on some point and I think it can be a problem, some phenomen who are not recognized by science are real. It's can be difficult to accept I agree but we need to be open minded for discovering the secrets of the universe ^^. At least it what's I think !

Um, no it isn't? The heart is a big muscle, and activated like one. It is no more an electromagnetic generator than your biceps or gluteus maximus is

Hahaha you made me laugh yeah it was what I thinking but I've minded about and finally I arrived to the conclusion that the heart is more powerful than our brain, our brain is like a computer very complex and In the beginning I was thinking it was the leader if we can say that but, for me our heart leads our brain, I'm feeling more driven by my instinct or my Emotional stuff than my thoughts or my ego.

Ah, I guess this is what you meant by 'our frequency' in your previous post. But we don't vibrate, do we? The heart is a muscle which pumps blood, and when it stops we die because there is no more oxygenated blood reaching our cells, and so our bodily functions break down. I don't see where a frequency or connection would factor in, especially since most of the energy in our bodies is stored as chemical energy

I'm agree with that, what I trying to tell is people tends to says heart is just a pump, but I think it's more complex that what we thought.

For example people in my country have made an artificial heart, patient seems to die month after being implanted, I don't think it's just about technical stuff, hearth have unknown function in my opinion and a mechanical one never can remplace it.

As for the vibrating part I know it can be weird to imagine but, an example I can give you is did you ever feel bad about someone whitout any particular reason ?

Like you're in a waiting room and you don't know why but someone is repelling you whitout any reason ? I think when the electromagnetic field that I was talking enter into another one who isn't calibrated on your "frequency" you feel bad and you reject this people as a threat whitout any reason not in a way you will be bad or something but just you don't feel comfortable in their presence.

Another example I personally living is some people who were very close to you, If their minds change in a way that their opposing to your valours, It's like they were repelled automatically of your life x'D it can be weird I agree but, I've lost some good friends whitout any reason because of that. I actually consider them as friends but if I don't do some step towards them they don't do anything. It's like some magnet in my opinion there's person who can attract you and others repelling you.

Speaking of connection, you seem to assume that living beings are more than just their physical body; like a sort of soul, am I right?

I'm no sure as soul as the world but I think it's a point were religion are right, I think something remains after "death" like a thing who saved all experience, memory and stuff like that.
It's invisible, but exist in my opinion, we tend to don't believe in things who cannot see, but for me it's an error to focus on our physical Sens because they are far from perfect.

But we're not here for nothing.

It's what I wandering to say x'D sorry if it's wasn't clear as just a difference.
I think we haven't just only one life, when I mind about after life it's not a eternal one in a paradise like many religions said.

That's just to beautiful for being real in my opinion x'D.

I'm more thinking of other type of life, assuming we're here for experimenting maybe we have a lot of possibilities in a lot of planets. After all earth is a just a grain of sand in the vaste multiverse x'D they are so many galaxy. I can't believe that just this one have developed life ^^

Ok coo! So, my point was that an eternal afterlife is not as good as it sounds. Why do I say that? Well, because it is eternal. It never ends. But what if it's a pleasant afterlife, you may ask? I think it doesn't matter. Even the most pleasant afterlife will get boring eventually, and gruesome after an eternity. This is just how human nature is; we are mortal beings who experience pleasure mostly when it can be contrasted against unpleasant things (by that I mean that pleasure is relative). We would eventually go nuts if we had to live eternally. It is either that, or we'd have to abandon our human nature upon death (especially if heaven is supposed to be sin-free), which, in my eyes, is comparable to being lobotomized.

Additionally, what is this life actually worth if we continue to exist anyway? I consider that life has value because it is not endless; that death is what gives meaning to our lives. If we continue existing after death, it takes away all that meaning. So I would argue that the afterlife promised to us by most religions is not fundamentally good, but fundamentally... problematic?]

Exactly what I thought about the question ! Eternity would be bored as hell that what I think we will never be immortal, That's why we need to enjoy our life as much as possible ! And finally maybe that's not sure but it can be enjoy our futures lifes who will be strictly different !

Thanks for reading Hahaha, I've do my best to be as clear as I can, speaking about technical and non conventional stuff in a secondary language is hard x'D I'm glad to know that you think the same about eternity Hahaha

Edit: posting have been really hard x'D I've wrote a lot on my cellphone and experienced some troubles make some content disappeared.

I'm not Sure :x but maybe some things have been deleted during all my reposting attempt x'D

If I may debate on this topic as well...

@Last4Skull

I arrived to the conclusion that the heart is more powerful than our brain, our brain is like a computer very complex and In the beginning I was thinking it was the leader if we can say that but, for me our heart leads our brain, I'm feeling more driven by my instinct or my Emotional stuff than my thoughts or my ego.

The heart has barely anything to do with instincts or emotions. Every thought, emotion, and instinct is produced by the brain in the specific areas that produce the certain sense. While the heart may indeed be the strongest muscle in the body, I'm afraid it simply exists for the same reason as just about everything else in the body: to act as, and maintain, the vessel of the brain.

In my perception if something is around you it's living because it's materialized, otherwise it will not be here, when things die they dematerialize, in a way that you can't see them but they just moved to another state.

I think when the electromagnetic field that I was talking enter into another one who isn't calibrated on your "frequency" you feel bad and you reject this people as a threat whitout any reason not in a way you will be bad or something but just you don't feel comfortable in their presence.

@ACISIIXVIII Hey there my riddle buddy ! It's like the 3rd time I wrote that part x'D
Sorry if I resume that argue but, I've been issued some bug while posting x'D

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The heart has barely anything to do with instincts or emotions. Every thought, emotion, and instinct is produced by the brain in the specific areas that produce the certain sense. While the heart may indeed be the strongest muscle in the body, I'm afraid it simply exists for the same reason as just about everything else in the body: to act as, and maintain, the vessel of the brain.

For me heart isn't just a pump, I think he lead the brain in someway, as you said brain control with specific area feeling stuff, but I think he acts like a "radio command" computer, Heart act like a beacon and he capture signal from it.

Assuming brain communicate with our body by electrical signals, I think heart give directive with magnetic signal to the brain, together they provide an electromagnetic capacity to our body.

So in my opinion when you field interact with another, heart provide instructions to the brain and brain transmute this into electrical signals for our body, and we can feel sensation produced by our physical Sens. It's kinda weird I can imagine x'D but it make sense for me.

An example I can give you: Have you ever love someone ?

It's maybe only my personal feelings but, when I'm in love I feel a sort of " pressure" in my heart not a bad one but a nice one, and also a " powerful warm ".

Otherside when someone Heartbreak you, you can feel a terrible pain and literally feel broken in the location of your heart, so if it was only brain who lead, we only need to feel a headache ? It can be weird I agree but it's what make sense for me.

So in my opinion you're right all connecting parts are in the brains but in my opinion signals are received from your heart. At least it make more sense for me than just appear magically in our brain.

There is a difference between living and existing. I would like to know precisely what you mean by "dematerialize." Also, would you consider things like atoms as being alive, or perhaps already dead?

I know what you want to tell me, but again for me it's just depends of our perception, I think we have the capacity to influence things in a way, As for an example, a bowl when you touch it it's solid, if it will be "dead" I think we just pass through it if we we're able to see it, but it's communicating with us in a way that we can grab it, and feel sensation with all our physical sens.

As for atoms they are a micro representation of us so they are alive ! We can't just see them physically because it's like a zoom of our body ?

For dematerialize, it's about our perception we're not able to see or interact with them in our matter perception but they are always there. I think they are some plan of perception we can't actually see or feel but they are around us.

Another example, water did you think it's alive or not ?

I personally think it's because our emotions can influence it, A Japanese scientist was studying on water and by researching on it he discovered that we can influct on the structure of water with just our feelings, that's why for example holy water have some good proprieties, it's like a water but strengthened with a positive stuff.

I know it can be hard to get that x'D but it's actually real. So in my opinion if something can interact with you in a way and can change by our feelings isn't it alive in a way ? Sure it's not like if it said hello I'm your friend !! But personnaly this communication make me believe that it's alive too.

You should probably doing reasearch on that on the Internet, I was surprised when I saw all emotional effects on water. Bad ones are really horrible x'D !

@EmperorPalpatine Sure it will be really interesting to testing that ! If you have the opportunity to do it, I will be interested to know the results !

Finally I want to thank you for been interested in what I've wrote, I know it can be ridiculous to thinking that way, I've just try to understand the world by my own feelings, and I'm glad you are mature in a way we can actually debate about that whitout read: Omg ! crazy Guy x'D

Thanks for all
Edit: Noooooo x.x I've just failed and delete some part of my post x'D It's really difficult to answer with a cellphone x'D

Im 100% agree with @nichodemus fear does play a huge role in believing in religion , people who are afraid of dying and know theyll die and wont be able to do anything afterwards , decide to believe in a religion that promises good things after death in this case heaven

@Last4Skull

As for the vibrating part I know it can be weird to imagine but, an example I can give you is did you ever feel bad about someone whitout any particular reason ?

For example people in my country have made an artificial heart, patient seems to die month after being implanted, I don't think it's just about technical stuff, hearth have unknown function in my opinion and a mechanical one never can remplace it.

So in my opinion you're right all connecting parts are in the brains but in my opinion signals are received from your heart. At least it make more sense for me than just appear magically in our brain.

As for atoms they are a micro representation of us so they are alive ! We can't just see them physically because it's like a zoom of our body ?

For dematerialize, it's about our perception we're not able to see or interact with them in our matter perception but they are always there. I think they are some plan of perception we can't actually see or feel but they are around us.

I personally think it's because our emotions can influence it, A Japanese scientist was studying on water and by researching on it he discovered that we can influct on the structure of water with just our feelings, that's why for example holy water have some good proprieties, it's like a water but strengthened with a positive stuff.

There's always a reason, even if you don't realize it. It could be the person's face, or smell, or movements... there's a lot of possibilities.

Sure it can be one of those factors, But I can't stop thinking about my feelings, it happend really rarely, often they were friends of friends but when I was feeling that they're were generally manipulator or bad people that's what really surprised me and make me think it's maybe a common lite spider sens all people have x'D

The reasons why artificial hearts aren't as good as natural ones yet are actually more or less understood. The problem is that the operation is very complicated and often comes with infection, blood clots or such, as you can read here. Note that artificial pacemakers work very well already.

I hope I'm wrong about that because these things can surely save life, time will tell us ^^.

The human body has been and still is extensively studied, partly because we need to understand it if we want to heal it. We have known for some time already that emotions are primarily generated by the amygdala, in the limbic system of our brain. Actually, thanks to computer tomography, we can, in a way, 'see' emotions in the brain Basically, computer tomography allows us to see the brain areas that are activated by a certain effect or condition, see this example. The heart has no influence on this, as it is just a big muscle. The heart does have a pacemaker, a group of nerves that rhythmically contract the heart automatically to pump the blood, but it does not send any signals to the brain. On the contrary, in some situations like when feeling a strong emotion, the brain will send signals to the heart to increase its rate. The seat of our cognitive abilities really is the brain

Yeah you're surely right, honestly I can't prove what I think about, it's just the way I feel it.
The only thing I know is if people will more listen their heart than their brains, the world surely be better Hahaha.

If I may also point out a fallacy in your thinking: whether emotions come form the heart or the brain does not actually explain what causes emotions. So I don't see how it would make more sense.

It can be weird I agree, you're right. In another side I think we're more and more like robots,
In a way that we want to explain everything. I wonder if can we just explain something we haven't created ? Equations are more and more complex in a way that I wondering if people who make them really understand them, if we discovered something new we add a constante in the equation and we ignore some theorie if they didn't fit with what we know. It's like that anti matter, maybe it's just matter who have both polarity?

No they are not. Atoms have a very specific structure, and it has nothing to do with our body. Atoms are basic elements that exist by themselves.

Ahhhh the famous atoms. Honestly I'm sure all people here will be angry against me but x'D I'm wandering if they are really real, they were introduced by Greek and India philosopher.
So be prepared to hate me ! 3,2,1 maybe it's just chemist who used them for justifying their research ?

The bomb is dropped x'D

I can't stop remade knowledge in question. I'm probably weird Hahaha !

Weren't you the one who posted that quote about how nothing is ever lost?

I wasn't clear maybe, but when I was thinking about that I would say that it's disappear of our perception field but it's actually here we can't see it or interact with, like it was in another bubble of reality.

So yeah, water is not affected by emotions, but it definitely is by chemicals and samplong effects.

I haven't heard of that, that's Sad but if that guy was a fake does that mean the subject is really wrong ? I've personally see one priest doing some stuff on water I've tasted the water before and after he doing his job into and taste was radically different, he hasn't added anything to the water by what I know so if we can't interact how can that be possible ? I was sceptic about that too but honestly I haven't explanation so if you have one you can share it with me

Anyway thanks for reading and debating with me it was interesting, it's always nice to confront point of view, but maybe we're far from the subject who was religion x'D maybe create a new thread will be more appropriate ^^

@Last4Skull

But I can't stop thinking about my feelings, it happend really rarely, often they were friends of friends but when I was feeling that they're were generally manipulator or bad people that's what really surprised me and make me think it's maybe a common lite spider sens all people have x'D

Equations are more and more complex in a way that I wondering if people who make them really understand them, if we discovered something new we add a constante in the equation and we ignore some theorie if they didn't fit with what we know. It's like that anti matter, maybe it's just matter who have both polarity?

As for antimatter, it is a theoretical substance, the term is used to describe something that, by nature, repels matter. Even if something had "both polarities" it wouldn't be labeled as antimatter. If you take an equation or anything else from theoretical physics, it's practically impossible to prove. In that regard, the "scientists" may not have the slightest clue as to what they're actually talking about. So are you questioning equations from practical fields or equations from theoretical physics?

I apologize if I went outside the topic for some of that, it would help if you could be more specific or give an example as to some of the more ambiguous subjects you use.

Ahhhh the famous atoms. Honestly I'm sure all people here will be angry against me but x'D I'm wandering if they are really real, they were introduced by Greek and India philosopher.
So be prepared to hate me ! 3,2,1 maybe it's just chemist who used them for justifying their research ?

I haven't heard of that, that's Sad but if that guy was a fake does that mean the subject is really wrong ? I've personally see one priest doing some stuff on water I've tasted the water before and after he doing his job into and taste was radically different, he hasn't added anything to the water by what I know so if we can't interact how can that be possible ? I was sceptic about that too but honestly I haven't explanation so if you have one you can share it with me

Anyway thanks for reading and debating with me it was interesting, it's always nice to confront point of view, but maybe we're far from the subject who was religion x'D maybe create a new thread will be more appropriate ^^

For example people in my country have made an artificial heart, patient seems to die month after being implanted,

Last4Skull:

Ahhhh the famous atoms. Honestly I'm sure all people here will be angry against me but x'D I'm wandering if they are really real, they were introduced by Greek and India philosopher.
So be prepared to hate me ! 3,2,1 maybe it's just chemist who used them for justifying their research ?

but maybe we're far from the subject who was religion x'D maybe create a new thread will be more appropriate ^^

If the proven equation goes against the previous theory, then most likely the theory will be thrown out, as a theory is pretty much the same thing as speculation or a proposed idea.

As for antimatter, it is a theoretical substance, the term is used to describe something that, by nature, repels matter.

Actually, I think I'll go ahead and make a new thread for more science-related discussions.

There's one thing I want to address here:

In another side I think we're more and more like robots,
In a way that we want to explain everything.

Also when people save other people lives they all thank their god , like when doctors do save a human from dying and they always thank god later , if the patient dies then the blame is on the doctor and they say god works in mysterious ways