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Forums → WEPR → Intelligent design Vs Evolution
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I just now found out about this forum and didn't notice a I.D. Vs E. thread so I decided to make one.
I am a Christian and believe in intelligent design is the way the world came to be.
What does everyone else think about this subject?
- 388 Replies
I know that, but energy/Matter can't "Begin" from nothing. Unless it has always been there.
Like I said, this isn't going to go anywhere. Every single one of these threads ends up like this.
We can talk about how time or causation isn't defined before the beginning of the universe. We could also talk about how ridiculous it is for a God to somehow interact with a physical universe even though this God is not a physical being.
But at the end of the day, no one here is qualified enough to answer these questions. Mostly because no one on the planet is qualified enough to answer them.
If a magical man in the sky works for you, then believe it. But don't try to bring in the same old ridiculous arguments against big bang theories. These arguments are tired, ineffective, and often based off a huge misunderstanding of physics, causation, and the nature of the big bang.
And, as predicted, this thread no longer has anything to do with evolution which, recall, is an explanation of how life that is already present can evolve. But here we are talking about the beginning of the universe.... again.
But here we are talking about the beginning of the universe.... again.
That was what i made the thread for.
I kinda see your point. But i have never been in the previous debates.
These arguments are tired, ineffective, and often based off a huge misunderstanding of physics, causation, and the nature of the big bang.
I don't really see your point there.
Let's just end this here and now with one big statement. There is no god.
Let's just end this here and now with one big statement. There is no god.
Why do you say that?
Look at the injustices in the world. Look at all the terrible things done in the name of religion: War, murder, discrimination. How is it possible that there is an all loving god who designed all this? Anyone can see that an intelligent god with a design in mind would not allow these things.
He who looks to god for solace shall find heartache.
But which seems more logical? A God existed before time? Or Matter existed before time?
Since there is no evidence there is a god of any kind, I'll go with matter.
Sorry for the huge amounts of posts, but...
How do you know that? has anyone seen it take place?
It can't be scientific if it has not been observed
Yes, it's been observed all over the place.
Where did the "infinite amount of matter" come from?
We don't know for sure, but there's no need for a cause because 'before'(dam the limits of languages) the Big Bang, there was no time as it was compressed infinitely like the matter was. So, there wasn't a law of cause and effect. So no need for a cause.
2. But where did the water (H2O), methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3), and hydrogen (H2) come from?
The nebulae that formed into our solar system. Duh >_>
So, what you are saying is, nothing... created... something. Am I right??
No. Everything was all smushed together, and then it spread out.
I know that, but energy/Matter can't "Begin" from nothing. Unless it has always been there.
Yes, it can. If there's no time, there's no cause and effect, no causation, no sequence. Something can't begin if there's no time for it to begin in - so the matter just popped into existence, decompressed, and so formed our Universe.
I don't really see your point there.
It was a nice, retired-mod way of saying that the arguments you're using arguments aren't good. Like he said, the arguments you're using are overused, ineffective, and based off of misunderstandings about physics, causation, and the Big Bang itself - almost everyone on your side uses them, and no matter how many times they're used, they're still wrong.
The nebulae that formed into our solar system. Duh >_>
and the stuff that made up the nebulae came from earlier stars that had exploded.
So, what you are saying is, nothing... created... something. Am I right??
In a way it's more accurate to say everything created nothing.
But which seems more logical? A God existed before time? Or Matter existed before time?
Really? That's your reason for believing it was a god?
Well, there is obviously matter... so the idea that matter has always existed is much more logical... Thanks for affirming my opinion.
And, as predicted, this thread no longer has anything to do with evolution which, recall, is an explanation of how life that is already present can evolve. But here we are talking about the beginning of the universe.... again.
People need to understand that EVOLUTION HAS NO BEARING ON BELIEFS OF ORIGINS! Evolution only takes whatever happened during origin and allowed life to change. You already have failed in this debate if you believe that evolution is debunking religion.
so the idea that matter has always existed is much more logical
Now you're getting it. Someone else figured this out-- congrats! :P
God used evolution, the big bang, etc, to create everything we know. What is wrong with God using science?
God used evolution, the big bang, etc, to create everything we know. What is wrong with God using science?
Nothing but since we have no proof of his existence and evolution, abiogenesis, and likely the Big Bang can all happen with out Gods help what's the point of adding him to the mix?
Since there is no proof of God saying God even had a hand in these things is nothing more then an assertion that doesn't provide an answer to anything.
Really? That's your reason for believing it was a god?
1 No that is not my reason.
2 [url=http://http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/431383/existence_of_god_4_reasons_that_support_pg3.html?cat=9]
Yes, it can. If there's no time, there's no cause and effect, no causation, no sequence. Something can't begin if there's no time for it to begin in - so the matter just popped into existence, decompressed, and so formed our Universe.
Not trying to be a jerk, but I don't really think that has been proven.
Yes, it's been observed all over the place.
Where.
In a way it's more accurate to say everything created nothing.
But the "everything" was nothing. Not something.
they're still wrong.
That is your point of view, not a fact.
Since there is no evidence there is a god of any kind, I'll go with matter.
1. Science can't really prove anything.
[url=http://http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/431383/existence_of_god_4_reasons_that_support_pg3.html?cat=9]
Well, there is obviously matter... so the idea that matter has always existed is much more logical... Thanks for affirming my opinion.
So, matter, created time?
and the stuff that made up the nebulae came from earlier stars that had exploded.
And the matter that formed the stars came from....
No. Everything was all smushed together, and then it spread out.
Where did the "Everything" come from.
Ahh, the links didn't work.
Ok, here's a question for you guys.
You believe the planet earth is millions of years old right?
Where did the "Everything" come from.
Your worries about first existence are certainly well-founded. But keep in mind the wealth of evidence we have that the big bang actually occurred. Now, it may just be that God (or whatever) introduced the energy that got it all started. But now the issue just comes down to what you think is more plausible. Realistically, the issue comes down to some matter of fact that none of us can understand because we're not astrophysicists. But in lieu of any knowledge about the facts of the matter, all we have to go on is what is most plausible.
The simple fact is that the laws of causation as we understand them break down within the first few nanoseconds of the universe's existence. But the main thing to keep in mind is that we have evidence of the big bang. We have no evidence of God.
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